Permadeath

[giantsfrey]

perhaps i can interest you in one of the other, better suggestions i mentioned, then? i didn't say that was a good one... just a possible one.

[2d0x]

Permadeath is a trifle. The most disgusting thing about this game is that every character is a potential Curiosity! This is the crux of the problem. The more time you spend on the game, the more people who want to kill you. Or you must hide, instead of traveling and researching. Sooner or later you will be killed and either studied, or simply thrown like garbage if the level was small. And you will start from scratch. Bait simulator with crafting. So stupid... Stupid and disgusting. This is how to grow children who will go to the organs for other people or will be thrown into the trash.

[Headchef]

Permadeath is a trifle. The most disgusting thing about this game is that every character is a potential Curiosity! This is the crux of the problem. The more time you spend on the game, the more people who want to kill you. Or you must hide, instead of traveling and researching. Sooner or later you will be killed and either studied, or simply thrown like garbage if the level was small. And you will start from scratch. Bait simulator with crafting. So stupid... Stupid and disgusting. This is how to grow children who will go to the organs for other people or will be thrown into the trash.

It's not to study skull as at that point (when skulls get good) the person who killed them has 99% of the time better lp/h curios or want to keep good skulls for cool collection.

To be honest if you get good as a single person and have multiple claims I doubt anyone would invest loads of time in siegeing a single person base, and if you are caught outside, that's kind of the always present risk of going outside. Stay inside with chars which shouldn't die or accept encounter/death risk.

[2d0x]

It's not to study skull as at that point (when skulls get good) the person who killed them has 99% of the time better lp/h curios or want to keep good skulls for cool collection.

Does this change a lot? It's so cool: a long time nursing with a character, and then someone will take you to the collection of skulls? A fairy tale, a dream! :\

To be honest if you get good as a single person...

If it were not for skull hunting, which is encouraged and promoted by the developers...

Stay inside with chars which shouldn't die or accept encounter/death risk.

Have a well-developed character, but shake for him and play useless, which is not a pity? Yeah, you can also walk in dirty rags and keep good clothes in the closet.

Impression of the game, as if I had bitten an apple with a worm. Apple was delicious, but the worm in the mandatory set is disgusting.

[Headchef]

It's not to study skull as at that point (when skulls get good) the person who killed them has 99% of the time better lp/h curios or want to keep good skulls for cool collection.

Does this change a lot? It's so cool: a long time nursing with a character, and then someone will take you to the collection of skulls? A fairy tale, a dream! :\

To be honest if you get good as a single person...

If it were not for skull hunting, which is encouraged and promoted by the developers...

Stay inside with chars which shouldn't die or accept encounter/death risk.

Have a well-developed character, but shake for him and play useless, which is not a pity? Yeah, you can also walk in dirty rags and keep good clothes in the closet.

Impression of the game, as if I had bitten an apple with a worm. Apple was delicious, but the worm in the mandatory set is disgusting.

I'm more talking about seperating tasks. So that everything that is not needed to be risked, is not.

Then when you have seperate characters for seperate tasks you would never lose the majority of your progress.

Your 1 ''well developped'' char become 5 well developped chars for the roles they do.

Needless to say this is also faster because can study same curio on those 5 chars, meaning way more LP/h that can be invested into one certain direction.

If you choose to play foolish and risk more than what you can afford to lose you then it's a shame but nonetheless a result of own choices.

The only characters really going outside are fighters and perhaps a seperate exploration account early on.

This way when warrior dies all your crafters can support the fallen char properly and you can compensate your own death.

Just because of the nature of the game using alts is extremely beneficial and if you choose not to use this you knowingly give yourself a handicap and therefore lose all at once, that's life.

But seeing how bad you talk about the game, if this all seems so unfair and crooked/not your taste, why not play peaceful farm simulators like Farmville. Maybe club Penguin also good environment for your mindset.

[shampizle]

Permadeath is a trifle. The most disgusting thing about this game is that every character is a potential Curiosity! This is the crux of the problem. The more time you spend on the game, the more people who want to kill you. Or you must hide, instead of traveling and researching. Sooner or later you will be killed and either studied, or simply thrown like garbage if the level was small. And you will start from scratch. Bait simulator with crafting. So stupid... Stupid and disgusting. This is how to grow children who will go to the organs for other people or will be thrown into the trash.

other than the leet ppl that abuse mechinancs which is the ones that played this game the longest and no they'res really no repercussion of doing so. has that mind set. having perma death makes it so the mid tier players second guess if they really want to attack someone they dont know.

[Barbamaus]

I don't think Permadeath is the real issue here. I died several times in the several worlds I've played; whenever I died because of MY actions, I never got mad, because I knew it was my fault. No matter if it was getting too close to a bear, catching too many crabs and hedgehogs barehanded, going AFK while in a swamp, or trying to swim across a river without checking my stamina first. It was my mistake, and I dealt with it.

What gets annoying, and usually gets people to rage quit for good, is dying without having a chance. That can be attribute to a bug, or most likely because someone much stronger decided to kill you "just because".

Experienced players killing noobs is a common problem in many games, and nobody found a way to fix it. Something that I believe lacks, is some kind of psychological negative buff for killing someone. Let's face it, if (as jorb said in his post) crime was added to make it more realistic, H&H's world is literally filled with psychopaths. There is very few people in our society that go around killing anyone for no reason. They will rob you, they will vandalise your stuff, maybe even beat you up. But unlikely they will kill you if they have no reason to do so. They added crime to make it more realistic, but overlooked a large aspect of how crime works in our society: the law system. Haven has it's own laws: anything in a claim is off limits, and killing players is a crime. That's how the scent system works, so those are the actual laws in H&H. But there isn't a real justice system. Sure there are a couple of players going around killing criminals, but most of the time they just target thiefs, because they are easy targets. Same goes for the thingy you can summon to go after a criminal: rage it's a huge LP investment for peaceful players, and you have to rely on luck to find the item to summon it.

Where am I going with this? The non-PVP idea, of course. A non-PvP world doesn't mean a world without crime. Trespassing, Theft and Vandalism should still exist, maybe even rage. Murder should still be something you can get, but only be able to use it on those who left a scent behind, or those with "active PvP". just like you toggle criminal acts, you could toggle PvP (being unable to toggle it off if in combat or while an outlaw).

Loftar posted a bunch of stuff you can do to grief other players without killing them; but does it really happen that often? In my experience, since the old H&H, I've never had any of those issues. The only issue I've always had was being killed for no reason by someone who wouldn't give a flying f*ck about my stuff. (and anyway, most of those issues are solved with vandalism).

This is to say that Permadeath can be a nice feature, making you pay more attention and value more your character, as long as you don't lose everything because of a jerk.

As some of you pointed out, the PvP issue has been brought up plenty of times, and yet nothing has been done for all those players who would like to play without it. I truly believe the community would benefit from it if there was a non-murderous option for all those players who are either inexperienced or simply want to enjoy a survival game alone or with a small group of friends.

[Barbamaus]

It's not to study skull as at that point (when skulls get good) the person who killed them has 99% of the time better lp/h curios or want to keep good skulls for cool collection.

Does this change a lot? It's so cool: a long time nursing with a character, and then someone will take you to the collection of skulls? A fairy tale, a dream! :\

To be honest if you get good as a single person...

If it were not for skull hunting, which is encouraged and promoted by the developers...

Stay inside with chars which shouldn't die or accept encounter/death risk.

Have a well-developed character, but shake for him and play useless, which is not a pity? Yeah, you can also walk in dirty rags and keep good clothes in the closet.

Impression of the game, as if I had bitten an apple with a worm. Apple was delicious, but the worm in the mandatory set is disgusting.

I'm more talking about seperating tasks. So that everything that is not needed to be risked, is not.

Then when you have seperate characters for seperate tasks you would never lose the majority of your progress.

Your 1 ''well developped'' char become 5 well developped chars for the roles they do.

Needless to say this is also faster because can study same curio on those 5 chars, meaning way more LP/h that can be invested into one certain direction.

If you choose to play foolish and risk more than what you can afford to lose you then it's a shame but nonetheless a result of own choices.

The only characters really going outside are fighters and perhaps a seperate exploration account early on.

This way when warrior dies all your crafters can support the fallen char properly and you can compensate your own death.

Just because of the nature of the game using alts is extremely beneficial and if you choose not to use this you knowingly give yourself a handicap and therefore lose all at once, that's life.

But seeing how bad you talk about the game, if this all seems so unfair and crooked/not your taste, why not play peaceful farm simulators like Farmville. Maybe club Penguin also good environment for your mindset.

While having different characters for different roles is a good strategy, you shouldn't be forced into it. For those who have plenty of hours to play, having multiple characters can be fun, but if you have limited free time, it can be very annoying. There are plenty of players who like to play with their close friends, so that everyone fits one role; but if your role was the hunter, or the explorer, and you die, you lost everything. The only character that you would make thinking already about his death is a warrior.

Also, there is no need to be a jerk. Saying stuff like "go play FarmVille" just makes you look like an asshat. Haven is a complex game, and PvP is only a small part of it, so it's understandable that a lot of players are not interested in it and yet enjoy the game.

[2d0x]

Then when you have seperate characters for seperate tasks you would never lose the majority of your progress.

True, but much more convenient and logical to play one or two characters, not a dozen.

If you choose to play foolish and risk more than what you can afford to lose you then it's a shame but nonetheless a result of own choices.

If I decided to see new places or go to a friend, then it's called "to play foolish"? Strange... Oh yes! We open the door with one special character, check the path to the river with the second one, carry the boat with the third character, sit in it with the fourth, fifth and sixth characters; so?

The only characters really going outside are fighters and perhaps a seperate exploration account early on.

But I'm not interested in fighting with others. And I do not want to sit like a rat in the basement. But I could play as I want any character without skull hunting!

But seeing how bad you talk about the game...

In this game there is no PvP, and there is no realism, but many senseless murders and the cultivation of stupid cruelty. I'm extremely negative about skull hunting. And to the fact that the developers themselves are provoking this hunt, leaving the player with nothing. I would normally treat both the loss of things, and the loss of experience, and permadeath, but to a stupid unnecessary provocation to murder I can not be treated well. I do not understand excessive cruelty in the struggle for world resources, but it makes any sense. The empty hunt for skulls is a dirty and disgusting thing, unjustified. I'm not saying that the game is bad, but the education of senseless cruelty crosses out a lot of good in this game.

Barbamaus, you described everything very well. It was difficult for me to explain in a language I did not know.

[Antaraner]

Funny discusion. The one guys sais its the skull hunting that ruins erverything.
Sad truth, grievers dont care about your skull lp or items. The wreck you because they are dicks.
The other practically says you need a dozen alts to plays this game. I personaly doubt that was the intention of the developer and I thing you should scale down you haven hearth operation you are running.
I would bet that when every player only has access to 1 char things would look different.