Tutorial and combat aproach

[Aceb]

+1 to confusing hot mess combat system. As cool as it is to have all these moves and options. It is complete insanity trying to comprehend which one works best on which enemy or player. it basically comes down to luck and ridiculous amounts of near death scenarios.

Not really. I barely spared with other players (and mostly, never experienced warriors) but if You put your head into it, You can work it out.

(PvE doesn't equal PvP here, from my sight)

[abt79]

+1 to confusing hot mess combat system. As cool as it is to have all these moves and options. It is complete insanity trying to comprehend which one works best on which enemy or player. it basically comes down to luck and ridiculous amounts of near death scenarios.

I kind of disagree with this, as the current combat system sort of disallows a player with any knowledge of the combat system of taking more than a tiny bit of damage from any (non-player) thing they fight voluntarily (and even most aggressive enemies will only knock you out leaving little wounds but a strong concussion).

I'm not saying this is at all fair and balanced but I think the only reason players generally forgive the combat system's flaws is because "at least I won't take much damage"; it's a guarantee of small bits of damage rather than the w8/9 combat system's chance of a one-shot knockout, especially for the inexperienced, from most animals anyways.

This does end up making combat a little more fair in PVP (at least from what I've heard; as a small hermit PvP isn't something I spend much time on) and makes aggressive animals (except those that chose to murder downed players) significantly less of a threat even to those that don't understand the combat system whatsoever, as hostiles won't do any damage on the first hit and even the knockout blow won't be crippling. However the rest in between, that being all of legitimate PvE, becomes nearly impossible to escape unscathed, even at very high UA and AGI and even against the weakest enemies (ANTS!). Surprising as it may sound, people don't like getting wounded in a permadeath game where hours, days, even months of progress are all but lost upon death, so of course you get things like boat exploits. Not to mention with animals fleeing at supersonic speeds for hours makes anything short of a rowboat and shallow water phallus completely not viable without a horse and a 150ua titan (alt) (and even then you're still taking damage, good luck fucko).


Hunting needs attention, and I have no reason to believe nerfing boat cheesing will do it. "Hurr durr I can't believe intelligent human beings in a decently realistic survival game with consequences to death are figuring out crafty ways to avoid death, lemme just whack-a-mole away all the possible exploits and surely they won't think of more or just stop hunting entirely!"


And no, that doesn't mean pelting things with one million rocks, I don't need no q10 shit

[NOOBY93]

+1 to confusing hot mess combat system. As cool as it is to have all these moves and options. It is complete insanity trying to comprehend which one works best on which enemy or player. it basically comes down to luck and ridiculous amounts of near death scenarios.

I kind of disagree with this, as the current combat system sort of disallows a player with any knowledge of the combat system of taking more than a tiny bit of damage from any (non-player) thing they fight voluntarily (and even most aggressive enemies will only knock you out leaving little wounds but a strong concussion).

I'm not saying this is at all fair and balanced but I think the only reason players generally forgive the combat system's flaws is because "at least I won't take much damage"; it's a guarantee of small bits of damage rather than the w8/9 combat system's chance of a one-shot knockout, especially for the inexperienced, from most animals anyways.

This does end up making combat a little more fair in PVP (at least from what I've heard; as a small hermit PvP isn't something I spend much time on) and makes aggressive animals (except those that chose to murder downed players) significantly less of a threat even to those that don't understand the combat system whatsoever, as hostiles won't do any damage on the first hit and even the knockout blow won't be crippling. However the rest in between, that being all of legitimate PvE, becomes nearly impossible to escape unscathed, even at very high UA and AGI and even against the weakest enemies (ANTS!). Surprising as it may sound, people don't like getting wounded in a permadeath game where hours, days, even months of progress are all but lost upon death, so of course you get things like boat exploits.


Hunting needs a massive rework, and I have no reason to believe nerfing boat cheesing will do it. "Hurr durr I can't believe intelligent human beings in a decently realistic survival game with consequences to death are figuring out crafty ways to avoid death, lemme just whack-a-mole away all the possible exploits and surely they won't think of more or just stop hunting entirely!"


And no, that doesn't mean pelting things with one million rocks, I don't need no q10 shit

No matter what the hunting system is, people will always use the most efficient way (exploits) to do it. It will always be, without a doubt, whack-a-moling exploits away by the devs. Hunting is fine right now, takes higher stats, better gear than before, and sometimes a horse, but it's fine. Boat cheesing just has to get fixed.

[abt79]

+1 to confusing hot mess combat system. As cool as it is to have all these moves and options. It is complete insanity trying to comprehend which one works best on which enemy or player. it basically comes down to luck and ridiculous amounts of near death scenarios.

I kind of disagree with this, as the current combat system sort of disallows a player with any knowledge of the combat system of taking more than a tiny bit of damage from any (non-player) thing they fight voluntarily (and even most aggressive enemies will only knock you out leaving little wounds but a strong concussion).

I'm not saying this is at all fair and balanced but I think the only reason players generally forgive the combat system's flaws is because "at least I won't take much damage"; it's a guarantee of small bits of damage rather than the w8/9 combat system's chance of a one-shot knockout, especially for the inexperienced, from most animals anyways.

This does end up making combat a little more fair in PVP (at least from what I've heard; as a small hermit PvP isn't something I spend much time on) and makes aggressive animals (except those that chose to murder downed players) significantly less of a threat even to those that don't understand the combat system whatsoever, as hostiles won't do any damage on the first hit and even the knockout blow won't be crippling. However the rest in between, that being all of legitimate PvE, becomes nearly impossible to escape unscathed, even at very high UA and AGI and even against the weakest enemies (ANTS!). Surprising as it may sound, people don't like getting wounded in a permadeath game where hours, days, even months of progress are all but lost upon death, so of course you get things like boat exploits.


Hunting needs a massive rework, and I have no reason to believe nerfing boat cheesing will do it. "Hurr durr I can't believe intelligent human beings in a decently realistic survival game with consequences to death are figuring out crafty ways to avoid death, lemme just whack-a-mole away all the possible exploits and surely they won't think of more or just stop hunting entirely!"


And no, that doesn't mean pelting things with one million rocks, I don't need no q10 shit

No matter what the hunting system is, people will always use the most efficient way (exploits) to do it. It will always be, without a doubt, whack-a-moling exploits away by the devs. Hunting is fine right now, takes higher stats, better gear than before, and sometimes a horse, but it's fine. Boat cheesing just has to get fixed.

I'm fine if archery doesn't suck, seriously even if you want to shaft newbies with a q1 boar at least let them do a bit of damage (I guess they fixed it a little bit by lessening the effect of the enemy agility but damn that should really affect the chance of missing more than the actual damage, any idiot at least has a chance of nabbing a bear in the jugular and near-killing it in one shot with the proper equipment), and maybe have the animals someday let up their endless quest to beat the landspeed record after taking countless sharp objects to the legs, heart, and eyes (except boars, haha, those waddling bastards can run all they like). As it stands there is no reason to ever use archery, so at least give new players a decent chance to discover some low-q meat.


In their most recent streams the developers were talking about how hunting shouldn't just be free meat, that their should be a chance the action will fail and that there is no guarantee they end up killing the beast. However with its current state, horsemen are pretty much guaranteed a win if they have the stats, noobs have no chance whatsoever unless they use an exploit or sacrific q (and even then probably not), and everyone in between are fucked enough that they have no reason whatsoever to hunt without the use of boat and run. What I'm trying to say is that, if in any situation a player has no chance of killing an animal, they won't bother to try, and when the chance is so low that the effect is essentially the same, they won't try either. In an attempt to add realism, interesting mechanics, or challenge to hunts they've essentially boiled them down to "have the horse or enjoy chicken meat" and thus the only people that would hunt anything outside of trolls, mammoths, and the occasional bear to survive will now not bother (or won't without rowboats).

[pedorlee]

Wow, it looks like while testing stuff after last patch I forgot to use a stance, maybe thats the reason why I got rekt so many times.

Sparring

New players don't have that chance.

µ symbol depends on the amount of cards you put into moves, 1.0 at 1 card up to 1.5 at 5 cards I think.
an attack with 1.5 attack weight at 300 unarmed combat is like an attack with 1.0 attack weight at 450 unarmed combat. It's basically a multiplier to your unarmed combat/melee combat depending what governs the attack (or defense).

Thanks for the explanation but look at that, you haven't been able to explain it without examples. That's not what I call an optimum way of teaching anything, and there is zero explanation about it provided by devs.
Mathematics we did on high school were something I deeply hated because that's not the kind of knowledge I enjoy, but I have some minimum knowledge so I can do roots and I understand formulas aplied to receipts in the game, but if you use symbols like µ without any context, the player (new or old) can be easily frustrated. And you need to understand that not everybody is as clever as you.
And you are right, I have 0 patience when it comes to mathematics. I deeply hate them.

It pretty clearly says "MC*250%*u" (u in this case is fairly redundant since you can't put more than one point into a maneuver)

No, it doesn't. You must imagine that is aplied to mc because its a shield and doesn't fit in what unarmed means. Mc is not writen anywere.
Damn, you must figure everything because there is no explanation about anything!

Not really. I barely spared with other players (and mostly, never experienced warriors) but if You put your head into it, You can work it out.

(PvE doesn't equal PvP here, from my sight)

This game has too many things to learn, its a dificult one. If you start fighting animals you will get hurted, it's very frustrating for new players and Imo that doesn't help to stick new players around.
I remember when I started playing how dificult it was to survive. Anything could kill you and that was very cool. Why not return to that but with a good tutorial and good explanations about how combat works? Thats more charming and related to the origins of this game.

Imo devs should or could ask to MagicMan or Borka for a bit of help on the tutorial or in the descriptions about combat in the game. Those two are very good at explaining technical things with a common lenguage we all can understand. Get rid of those weird matematic symbols and make descriptions plain and reachable for everybody.

[Jacobian123]

It pretty clearly says "MC*250%*u" (u in this case is fairly redundant since you can't put more than one point into a maneuver)

No, it doesn't. You must imagine that is aplied to mc because its a shield and doesn't fit in what unarmed means. Mc is not writen anywere.
Damn, you must figure everything because there is no explanation about anything!

*Cough*

[pedorlee]

It pretty clearly says "MC*250%*u" (u in this case is fairly redundant since you can't put more than one point into a maneuver)

No, it doesn't. You must imagine that is aplied to mc because its a shield and doesn't fit in what unarmed means. Mc is not writen anywere.
Damn, you must figure everything because there is no explanation about anything!

*Cough*

Thats just a sword in a shield. Saying MC is exactly what it should be.

[Jacobian123]

Thats just a sword in a shield. Saying MC is exactly what it should be.

I'm just going to assume you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about now.

[NOOBY93]

Thats just a sword in a shield. Saying MC is exactly what it should be.

It does say MC though. Melee Combat. He sent a screenshot of it and you replied to it

How do new players not have the chance to spar? Everyone will The Will To Power has the chance to spar. It costs 200 LP, smh

Also you don't need very advanced math skills to be able to figure out how to multiply something by 1.5

[pedorlee]

Thats just a sword in a shield. Saying MC is exactly what it should be.

It does say MC though. Melee Combat. He sent a screenshot of it and you replied to it

How do new players not have the chance to spar? Everyone will The Will To Power has the chance to spar. It costs 200 LP, smh

Also you don't need very advanced math skills to be able to figure out how to multiply something by 1.5

Where does it say multiply by 1.5 ?