Smoke of War death idea.

[Sevenless]

It's not about the implementation, it's about the testing and balancing in my mind.

But now ; where you first cater the noobs - by taking away permadeath - the people who knew what they were doing from the start,who were pvp oriented, just quit.

After one of my playthroughs of haven, where I played this game for 3 months and fought 0 people (because I wasn't high powered faction, this was best thing to do) I went to play darkfall. In 1 day, I got into 30 fights. Fighting was fun, it had full loot, but my character wasn't gone if I lost. PvP is fun, but permadeath makes most people not want to go near it. And people who are smart just make alt factories and do it very little.

Haven pvp is fun in itself. Permadeath just makes people pvp less. A good wounding system that may make you take a week or two to recover from a fight will give the fight the same adrenaline it has now, the same impact. But we can stop having people get killed out of the game, and factions can sustain longer term fighting.

And the whole point of this imo is to make more pvp centric events/resources. So there's more reason to fight.

[2d0x]

I already wrote earlier that for fans of pvp with a deadly outcome, you can organize specially generated mini-locations.
Strongly wounded can escape from the location, and those who want to live forever will simply not go there.

[Headchef]

It's not about the implementation, it's about the testing and balancing in my mind.

But now ; where you first cater the noobs - by taking away permadeath - the people who knew what they were doing from the start,who were pvp oriented, just quit.

After one of my playthroughs of haven, where I played this game for 3 months and fought 0 people (because I wasn't high powered faction, this was best thing to do) I went to play darkfall. In 1 day, I got into 30 fights. Fighting was fun, it had full loot, but my character wasn't gone if I lost. PvP is fun, but permadeath makes most people not want to go near it. And people who are smart just make alt factories and do it very little.

Haven pvp is fun in itself. Permadeath just makes people pvp less. A good wounding system that may make you take a week or two to recover from a fight will give the fight the same adrenaline it has now, the same impact. But we can stop having people get killed out of the game, and factions can sustain longer term fighting.

And the whole point of this imo is to make more pvp centric events/resources. So there's more reason to fight.

''Haven pvp is fun in itself.''
Check out Valhalla sometime and see how many share the opinion.
Permedeath makes outcome of conflict meaningful.
Even if wounding was like ''ok your char is dead for 2 weeks'' it doesn't matter because that's why you have multiple fighters.
It's not about the adrenaline it's about the impact of the conflict.
Bringing up ''people getting killed out of the game'' is invalid here, unless if you find that once they've chosen to go into life or death conflict they deserve some sort of mercy.

There are stupid people in every game, for example any game with currency and gambleing.
Should gambleing not be allowed because people spend all they have and they risk what they cannot afford to lose?
Protecting people from themselves through game mechanic is for a children's game, which this game hopefully is not.

Yeah it's an interesting concept to have fights over this and that but meh..
''It is true, in a sense, that spite and malice are not the most reasonable passions, but powerful motivators they can be.''

Getting a kill on other faction used to be cool.
Now it's like meh.
No matter how many resources you put any where.
Excitement killed entirely.

I already wrote earlier that for fans of pvp with a deadly outcome, you can organize specially generated mini-locations.
Strongly wounded can escape from the location, and those who want to live forever will simply not go there.

These would only be people who are sure of their case, but why would they just randomly go there to fight others there who seek nothing but a fight?
This area ingame could be called Valhalla 2 where you don't see anyone unless you made an appointment
My suggestion is that this area can be ''created'' by realm conflict, as well as being temporary.
No others affected. No dead areas of the map forever.

[2d0x]

These would only be people who are sure of their case, but why would they just randomly go there to fight others there who seek nothing but a fight?
This area ingame could be called Valhalla 2 where you don't see anyone unless you made an appointment ...

I don't know the language well and understood not all the nuances of the sentence. People do not accidentally go there. These locations are generated during a skirmish and when attacking the kingdom, for example. This option makes it possible to have pvp with and without death.

My suggestion is that this area can be ''created'' by realm conflict, as well as being temporary...

Yeah, that's what I wrote.

[MrPunchers]

The entire point of the pvp change was in order to make realm v realm and village v village combat less costly to repair from a loss. Making it "permadeath only for realm v realm combat" defeats the point. Jorb made it pretty clear this was aimed at changing willing pvp mechanics, and not really a softening of the game for mostly pve players.

I'm pretty sure it was so noobs wouldn't get annihilated from 5k stats peeps.

[Kaios]

Keep in mind the only people that the permadeath change is actually saving is higher stat characters, newbs/hermits/wounded players with lower stats are still very likely to be killed in combat.

[Headchef]

Keep in mind the only people that the permadeath change is actually saving is higher stat characters, newbs/hermits/wounded players with lower stats are still very likely to be killed in combat.

Yeah the further the world progresses the higher cleave would be I guess..

But what is your view on the rest of this Kaios? In favour of an element remaining /becoming ''hardcore'' or should everyone own atleast a titan or two and be able to PvP as long as you have enough alts at tree for roots ?

[ven]

I wouldn't put it as hardcoreness, even if that's not wrong. For me what this feature does is strip death, victory and defeat of their meaning.
There are ways one could counter that - collectible body parts or a better wound system for example. But, as it is right now, I'd say meaninglessness is what's the worst about it.

[Sevenless]

I wouldn't put it as hardcoreness, even if that's not wrong. For me what this feature does is strip death, victory and defeat of their meaning.
There are ways one could counter that - collectible body parts or a better wound system for example. But, as it is right now, I'd say meaninglessness is what's the worst about it.

I'd put the blame on ancient roots for that. Established factions can buy their way out of wounds as required.

Mind you, things like stitch patch are too punishing without ancient roots. So there's definitely some balancing that needs to be done.

[jorb]

Mechanics like this, in my experience, often devolve into retardery and gaming of the system itself, more than anything else. Popping in and out of the contested area, fighting just along the border to avoid the buff, blahblablah. Not sure exactly how it would play out, but I'm skeptical.