no-death pvp has made things WORSE

[ChildhoodObesity]

I mean, I realize UA abilities are used a lot, but UA as damage? By someone who regularly fights for factions?

Every video I see people have swords out.

mc doesnt even matter for damage though, it matters for attack weight/defense weight if i have 1mc i will do as much damage as someone with 1000 ok damage is based on WEAPON Q/TYPE and strength. what mc will do is if you cleave someone at 80 openings with 500 mc the cleave might bring them to 90 openings and do say 500 amount of damage, if someone with same weapon q and strength cleaved the same guy at 80 but they only had 1mc they would also do 500 damage and their openings would remain at 80 or maybe go to 81 or something hehe

Base damage* sqrt(sqrt(Quality*Strength)/10) as far as i know this is an accurate formula, base damage for b12 i believe is 150 not exactly sure on swords

[NOOBY93]

Actually melee combat is only useful for Parry. Other than that I can't see any situation in which it's not heavily outclassed by UA

[Sevenless]

Sorry, I'm using mental jargon that doesn't apply properly to the way the game works. I'm aware of what you were explaining CO, lemme try again:

Melee vs UA cards for damage specifically. I'm not talking about which stat you raise and nor is stickman really, and yes UA is crucial for openings I get that. Stickman is complaining that only weapon damage has a potential to kill someone now, while if you beat them down with UA cards you deal significantly less grievious damage due to how the combat system works. In order to shore this issue up, you'd need to limit attack damage to 100% of SHP instead of MHP. This would lower the HHP damage from melee cards a fair bit since I think it had pretty low base % values from what I've seen (it would also make killing someone almost impossible, see below).

Lets give an example. Ua attack deals max 10 damage per hit, hearthling has 100MHP. Each hit deals 30% greivous. Maximum damage you can deal is a theoretical 110% hp (knock them down to almost 0%, deal max damage next attack). This means the most HHP damage you can deal is 33% of mhp.

Now our melee attacks deal 50 damage per hit, still 100 hhp. Each hit deals 20% greivous. Maximum damage you can deal is 150% hp, and that equates to 30% hhp damage. Ok cool, stuff is balanced it seems, UA deals a bit more.

Now lets take a look at a low health hearthling. 10shp/100mhp. The most damage a ua attack can deal is 20%mhp, or 6 points of hhp damage. The most damage a melee attack can deal is theoretically 60%, which lands you into 12% hhp damage and a kill.

I'm pretty sure this is what stickman is talking about. Due to the low damage/hit and the current formula, it's almost impossible to kill someone with UA. Melee weapons are perfectly capable of it.

[NOOBY93]

Killing someone with melee attacks (like cleave) is almost impossible unless the guy you're attacking has extremely low stats. Also I think it's just fine the way it is

[Sevenless]

Killing someone with melee attacks (like cleave) is almost impossible unless the guy you're attacking has extremely low stats. Also I think it's just fine the way it is

Ok, but it's effectively impossible to kill anyone with any of the UA moves. Which is what this thread is about. You know I'm a fan of a wounding system rework (fixed healing times, % penalties instead of flat ones, etc) rather than keeping permadeath. Besides, until we get rid of leech deaths pvp is still 100% permadeath for the opponent of anyone who comes to the fight prepared.

[NOOBY93]

Leech deaths? Do you really think those will be an issue? I really don't think so at all. Also it shouldn't be possible to kill anyone with UA moves, UA moves are too strong as is

[Sevenless]

Leech deaths? Do you really think those will be an issue? I really don't think so at all. Also it shouldn't be possible to kill anyone with UA moves, UA moves are too strong as is

Con pumped leeches don't seem to obey the square root formula either. Q40 leeches deal 12 damage per tick instead of 3.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=52709&p=738212#p738209

[NOOBY93]

A player with such gear presumably has naked-alt-level stats. Those can be instant killed from full health with a single cleave anyway. I don't think leech deaths will be an actual problem to geared, somewhat statted characters.

[Sevenless]

A player with such gear presumably has naked-alt-level stats. Those can be instant killed from full health with a single cleave anyway. I don't think leech deaths will be an actual problem to geared, somewhat statted characters.

...?

No you can't kill someone with a full cleave. The game hardcaps your damage at MHP per hit. You can never deal more than the weapon's % grievous damage per attack. Maximum possible HHP damage is therefore x2 the grievous damage % of your MHP.

[NOOBY93]

A player with such gear presumably has naked-alt-level stats. Those can be instant killed from full health with a single cleave anyway. I don't think leech deaths will be an actual problem to geared, somewhat statted characters.

...?

No you can't kill someone with a full cleave. The game hardcaps your damage at MHP per hit. You can never deal more than the weapon's % grievous damage per attack. Maximum possible HHP damage is therefore x2 the grievous damage % of your MHP.

Yes you can