The contours system is problematic.

[DoctorViper]

But I hardly see it changing... Because of this:

That's not the main reason, though. The main purpose of the contours/fields system is to measure the complexity of paintings and make more complex paintings harder to produce, precisely because the image upload system wasn't supposed to be used just to swipe a random JPEG off Google Images and put it in the game. Judging from the OP, it's performing exactly as intended.

Well, don't I look like the biggest fool who has ever played Haven & Hearth.



In seriousness, I think the contour/fields system is great as a concept. I don't even mind the way it's implemented, and was willing to accept that I should just grind my psyche from the start of World 11 and specialize as someone who can help people make more complex sketches for their capes/knarrs/whatever. I even think it's clever that people can circumvent all of this altogether for the same price as a key in games such as Team Fortress 2 and Counter Strike: Global Offensive.

But now, the one part that's bullshit? The reason you just gave. I respect you and Jorb for making a game as ambitious as this, so I hope you can forgive me for what I'm about to say next, but do you honestly think people "swipe a random JPEG off Google Images" for the hell of it? First of all, I don't just rip images off of google. Sometimes I use Gelbooru or Safebooru to find what I'm looking for. Second, what about doing so in order to express one's interests (in my case, RWBY and Nier: Automata)? I don't expect anyone to recognize who Neopolitan or 2B are, but it would be nice to think about, that at least one player, when in a more friendly environment, can just look and say, "wow! That's a pretty nice cape! I take it you're a fan of {franchise}?" as an ice breaker, and being able to bond from there.

But again. Everything else, I'm willing to accept. It'd be nice if making more complex images and meeting their requirements wasn't such an arduous task, either through the points mentioned in the OP, what everyone else is mentioning, or perhaps as a new credo, but I'm not going to hold my breath over it.

[Onep]

I remember jorb saying that the painting system was also rather geared towards allowing you to make heraldry instead of full on images.
Although, as DDDsDD999 said, I think it would be neat to see image requirements scaling with your attributes instead of being a hardcap. And possibly adding a credo that aids in that aspect would be cool too.
It would feel as though you're increasing your artistry and making more efficient use of your materials.

[jordancoles]

But I hardly see it changing... Because of this:

That's not the main reason, though. The main purpose of the contours/fields system is to measure the complexity of paintings and make more complex paintings harder to produce, precisely because the image upload system wasn't supposed to be used just to swipe a random JPEG off Google Images and put it in the game. Judging from the OP, it's performing exactly as intended. On the other hand, I've seen numerous examples in-game of people who've managed to show pretty nice creativity within the system.

It's pretty bad though

I think everyone expected to just be able to upload images from Google, so that was a let-down from the very beginning
I'm glad we have the feature in any form though. It adds a lot to the game.

[DoctorViper]

I think everyone expected to just be able to upload images from Google, so that was a let-down from the very beginning I'm glad we have the feature in any form though, it adds a lot to the game.

Yeah, it really does! Of course, I wasn't expecting the fidelity of the image to be completely intact when I attempted to upload it. It's supposed to be a drawing/painting for crying out loud! ARK: Survival Evolved has a similar philosophy to it as well.

I also agree with Onep. Have the material requirements go down as you increase your stats, and perhaps throw in an "Artisan" credo to aid in this as well.

[loftar]

do you honestly think people "swipe a random JPEG off Google Images" for the hell of it?

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but it seems to me that you misunderstood my point to have been "random" images. A better word is perhaps "arbitrary" images, taken from anywhere with stuff you didn't have to put any effort into yourself.

I remember jorb saying that the painting system was also rather geared towards allowing you to make heraldry instead of full on images.

This, pretty much.

I think everyone expected to just be able to upload images from Google, so that was a let-down from the very beginning

I'm curious why you would expect such a thing. Is there something we should have done to adjust expectations accordingly?

[DoctorViper]

A better word is perhaps "arbitrary" images, taken from anywhere with stuff you didn't have to put any effort into yourself.

I know this isn't the point, but that's kind of a sore spot. If I could seriously make my own artwork, I could be making $60 off of schmoes like me who have neither the confidence, patience, or skill gifted to them in order to be able to do it themselves.

I remember jorb saying that the painting system was also rather geared towards allowing you to make heraldry instead of full on images.

It hasn't stopped people from trying, despite being faced with cases of "Miami Vice Syndrome" in the final image's colors.

[Onep]

It hasn't stopped people from trying, despite being faced with cases of "Miami Vice Syndrome" in the final image's colors.

People are always going to push the boundaries of any limitation. And honestly, I like the abstraction it forces you to use.

[loftar]

I know this isn't the point, but that's kind of a sore spot. If I could seriously make my own artwork, I could be making $60 off of schmoes like me who have neither the confidence, patience, or skill gifted to them in order to be able to do it themselves.

On the other hand, if there were no restrictions to the images put in, then there'd be no room for "player skill" in the system either, and from your previous posts, it sounds as if you do agree that that is a desirable property.

[DaniAngione]

I mean, to be honest I'm happy with the system being specifically tailored to be able to create what looks more or less like actual heraldry (and you can kind of achieve that indeed) but also offering the possibility of going for higher fidelity by utilizing techniques like dithering, etc -- but with high/expensive requirements that, in a way, make it very tempting to go for paid sketches.

I would love to see more flexbility, yes. More colors to be more precise... But I'm currently more happy-than-not with the system. So please don't understand that I meant it in a bad way, Loftar. I did say that revenue is important and the current system seems to privilege revenue if you want to go for something more complex/from Google.

And to be honest I like that. Game would visually be far more cluttered and lame if every single cape and banner became a walking meme. I seriously wouldn't like that.

I personally create my own heraldry for banners, knarrs, etc... But already utilized paid sketches for more complex images (the portrait with the two characters in the Wiki is mine, not sure who uploaded it there) and I think it's a nice balance, a way to encourage more "simple" or heraldic images but offer the possibility of making more complex images at a certain cost (either in-game or outside).

It's honestly better than full blown-out straight-from-google memeland. Honestly, we don't need the Haven world to be another Second Life mess

[loftar]

More colors to be more precise...

Sure enough, I'm not inherently against adding more colors, to some extent. I'm also not inherently against changing the fields/contours system to something else that better matches the intentions behind it, and for that matter I'm not against refining said intentions. I can't say I myself have any better idea, however.

dithering

I wouldn't exactly recommend dithering, though, at least not for naïve users. By the time the image gets through mipmapping and texture filtering and whatnot, it is likely to not look the way you thought it would look. (Which is relevant for the dithering technique used in the OP, too, btw.)