Scaling armor penalties

[shubla]

metal armor in real life didnt weigh half a ton and didnt hinder your movement all that much. otherwise it would be fucking useless.

I think it did exactly these things, and was not used that much.
Of course, proper plate armor was also very expensive.

[synaris]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

"A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55lbs).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body."

bite my shiny metal-covered ass.

[NOOBY93]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

"A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55lbs).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body."

bite my shiny metal-covered ass.

I've listened to some talkers and watched some reenactments - the suit of steel definitely does hinder movement, congrats for quoting wikipedia and being super cocky while you're at it.

didnt hinder your movement all that much. otherwise it would be fucking useless.

This other remark is equally stupid, just because there's a negative side to something, doesn't mean the positives do not outweigh the negatives in a particular situation. Look at it this way: Those big SWAT shields and gear are probably harder to run around with than in boxers and running shoes, but does it make them fucking useless? No, they have a use, which is exactly why they're being used. I assure you they do make you slightly less agile though, while full suits of metal made you even less agile.

[synaris]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

"A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55lbs).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body."

bite my shiny metal-covered ass.

I've listened to some talkers and watched some reenactments - the suit of steel definitely does hinder movement, congrats for quoting wikipedia and being super cocky while you're at it.

didnt hinder your movement all that much. otherwise it would be fucking useless.

This other remark is equally stupid, just because there's a negative side to something, doesn't mean the positives do not outweigh the negatives in a particular situation. Look at it this way: Those big SWAT shields and gear are probably harder to run around with than in boxers and running shoes, but does it make them fucking useless? No, they have a use, which is exactly why they're being used. I assure you they do make you slightly less agile though, while full suits of metal made you even less agile.

1: people these days are pathetic compared to the folks of long ago. we ingest so much toxic crap on a daily basis that our physical prowess is a complete joke compared to even the average farmer of medievil times.

2: what part of "all that much" dont you understand? of course it hinders you a bit, but you all make it sound like you walk like robots in full plate. which isnt the case. you can still use weapon based martial arts while wearing plate.

[NOOBY93]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

"A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55lbs).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body."

bite my shiny metal-covered ass.

I've listened to some talkers and watched some reenactments - the suit of steel definitely does hinder movement, congrats for quoting wikipedia and being super cocky while you're at it.

didnt hinder your movement all that much. otherwise it would be fucking useless.

This other remark is equally stupid, just because there's a negative side to something, doesn't mean the positives do not outweigh the negatives in a particular situation. Look at it this way: Those big SWAT shields and gear are probably harder to run around with than in boxers and running shoes, but does it make them fucking useless? No, they have a use, which is exactly why they're being used. I assure you they do make you slightly less agile though, while full suits of metal made you even less agile.

1: people these days are pathetic compared to the folks of long ago. we ingest so much toxic crap on a daily basis that our physical prowess is a complete joke compared to even the average farmer of medievil times.

2: what part of "all that much" dont you understand? of course it hinders you a bit, but you all make it sound like you walk like robots in full plate. which isnt the case. you can still use weapon based martial arts while wearing plate.

1: wat, no, that's just false. People are more athletic than ever, it's your choice if you want to go back to the good old "underfed and malnutritioned" diet, but don't make such false and dangerous claims, it may turn an idiot into an anorexic, or worse, a conspiracy theorist.
2: "all that much" is just a cop out then, what shubla said is correct, full plate armor was not too frequently used, it had a small niche and was very expensive as well.

[Granger]

I still think the only tangible penalty for armor would be a speed debuff. Not as huge as carrying a full boat, just enough for a steel plate wearing character being slower than one with leather (which would be slower than a character wearing none at all).

The reasoning is that with the OP suggestion everyone would still wear maximum armor, as it's quite irrelevant if you have 900 agi or 850 (from a 1k base) - but in case lighter armor gives benefits to movement agility (as speed in the world, not in terms of the stat) heavy armors would, while being beneficial for protection, be less the only choice.

Surely this will be disliked by the usual suspects as it would reduce their ability to run around in perfect gear to kill sprucecaps.

This must be the worst idea I've seen in 7-8 years, excluding 1 day old fresh troll accounts. Nobody would use gear that slows you down. Movement speed, should it be able to be increased by gear/stats, is the most important stat in the game. Everyone wants swimming speed boots even though there's boats and coracles, what do you think would happen if there was running gear (or anti-running gear)? EVERYONE WOULD USE THE FAST VERSION.

As combat in H&H dosn't work like 'swing in some direction and hope something is in the way' but by moves executing as soon as within a predefined range it could result in heavier armor giving reasonably more protection for the downside of lowered ability to break contact (but still hitting something that comes near), while being lightly protected having the benefit of being able to get in and out of range but the downside of hits taken hurting way more (combined to having heavier armor).

Within a sane framework (see below) it would well be possible to balance such different armor classes to have their individual benefits and weaknesses, so groups woudn't be all outfittet the same as there would be synergy in diversity. Could be way more fun for combat in group, compared to the current benny hill style of runing around and trying to corner an individual with a big enough group.

But as you PvP specialists sadly were quite successful in echo-chambering jorbtar to keep endlessly raising numbers (which in turn make any attempt to balance things futile, as it always boils down to the meta of finding the best of gear and the quickest prepare+killstrike combo) you collectively but effectively painted yourself into a corner of having to suffer from bad mechanics. Good description of that problem:

I don't agree with purus' idea either though, the way agility works now is that after a certain point, increasing it further versus the same opponent does nothing. This means that extremely high statted botters would have the privilege of also using top armor with no downsides while lower statted competitors would have to lower their armor class in order to try to compete with their agility.

[NOOBY93]

I still think the only tangible penalty for armor would be a speed debuff. Not as huge as carrying a full boat, just enough for a steel plate wearing character being slower than one with leather (which would be slower than a character wearing none at all).

The reasoning is that with the OP suggestion everyone would still wear maximum armor, as it's quite irrelevant if you have 900 agi or 850 (from a 1k base) - but in case lighter armor gives benefits to movement agility (as speed in the world, not in terms of the stat) heavy armors would, while being beneficial for protection, be less the only choice.

Surely this will be disliked by the usual suspects as it would reduce their ability to run around in perfect gear to kill sprucecaps.

This must be the worst idea I've seen in 7-8 years, excluding 1 day old fresh troll accounts. Nobody would use gear that slows you down. Movement speed, should it be able to be increased by gear/stats, is the most important stat in the game. Everyone wants swimming speed boots even though there's boats and coracles, what do you think would happen if there was running gear (or anti-running gear)? EVERYONE WOULD USE THE FAST VERSION.

As combat in H&H dosn't work like 'swing in some direction and hope something is in the way' but by moves executing as soon as within a predefined range it could result in heavier armor giving reasonably more protection for the downside of lowered ability to break contact (but still hitting something that comes near), while being lightly protected having the benefit of being able to get in and out of range but the downside of hits taken hurting way more (combined to having heavier armor).

Within a sane framework (see below) it would well be possible to balance such different armor classes to have their individual benefits and weaknesses, so groups woudn't be all outfittet the same as there would be synergy in diversity. Could be way more fun for combat in group, compared to the current benny hill style of runing around and trying to corner an individual with a big enough group.

But as you PvP specialists sadly were quite successful in echo-chambering jorbtar to keep endlessly raising numbers (which in turn make any attempt to balance things futile, as it always boils down to the meta of finding the best of gear and the quickest prepare+killstrike combo) you collectively but effectively painted yourself into a corner of having to suffer from bad mechanics. Good description of that problem:

I don't agree with purus' idea either though, the way agility works now is that after a certain point, increasing it further versus the same opponent does nothing. This means that extremely high statted botters would have the privilege of also using top armor with no downsides while lower statted competitors would have to lower their armor class in order to try to compete with their agility.

You do realize that if you made armor slow someone down, all people would do would just be gang up on the slow guy?

think of it like this: no matter how strong someone is, a group of average fighters would easily be able to kill him if he went walk speed and the fighters went run speed.

[Honoka]

You do realize that if you made armor slow someone down, all people would do would just be gang up on the slow guy?

think of it like this: no matter how strong someone is, a group of average fighters would easily be able to kill him if he went walk speed and the fighters went run speed.

Thats why we players should be encouraged to use lighter aaaaand heavier armor in good proportions.

[shubla]

Maybe some armor that reduces movement speed could be added.
But it would make your character really strong!
It could be used for pve purposes.

[NOOBY93]

You do realize that if you made armor slow someone down, all people would do would just be gang up on the slow guy?

think of it like this: no matter how strong someone is, a group of average fighters would easily be able to kill him if he went walk speed and the fighters went run speed.

Thats why we players should be encouraged to use lighter aaaaand heavier armor in good proportions.

No, that actually makes no sense. Then the heavier armored players would just get left behind if the group with heavy armored players gets into a disadvantageous situation. Have you ever been in pvp combat?