Archery: Why is it useless?

[julian12it]

There's no counterplay to an archer. They shoot you and do damage. You can raise or lower the damage, and it'll just flip-flop between useful stupidly overpowered and useless.

^

Don't see any possibility of it being "Balanced" with combat. Maybe allowing people to use bows and arrows for hunting is helpful.

[jordancoles]

Armor is literally over q1000 right now and if it works the way that it used to where opponents AGI vs your PERC comes into play then that also helps to deflect a lot of the incoming dmg (no stat caps, woo)

You have to be standing still to aim and if the target moves 20 degrees you have to re-aim again.
No one runs directly at you in PVP if you're wearing a bow, it would be retarded to do that

As others have said there is no counter to it other than running around in circles so if it were to be buffed again it's just straight DMG to the face while when using melee you need to build up to deal damage. Also, when bows were super broken for a bit people were able to place signposts in front of themselves and aim, then drop the signpost by walking 1 pixel and then immediately fire. It provided a wall from incoming arrows, which was pretty OP. Idk if it still works since you can walk through signposts now and no one uses bows

Idk how to buff bows really, if they become easier to aim and deal more damage they just become the META and if they're left as they are they're pretty much only used for low level hunting

[Thedrah]

i always thought the aim bar was unqiue but odd. why do we have it?

i suggest bow have two combat modes, a short wait/aim/ready time and shoots in that direction using surprise. but once in combat the bow changes to a normal weapon using combat actions like any other weapon so 10s delay to switch weapon or combat style. use an arrow to attack and can be used at a distance and allow the spear be used in the same fashion

tldr: no more aim bar, no quick bow shots from the hip in combat, bow gets combat moves shared with thrown weapons

[Aceb]

Perhaps rework it in this way:

Double the speed of aiming bar
+
Depending on quality of the bow (or type!), the direction the player aims, has two additional aims in the 10° * X degree for both sides, where X is some kind of formula between the Q and type of bow? Dunno.
OR
Player can have two aiming directions (true + prediction), one visible (that has double speed) for everyone and "hidden" second one that they only know, with the regular speed.
+
We have 3 types of arrows at the moment so why not do this:
Stone arrow:
Versus light armored (leather) enemies: 75% damage straight to armor, remaining 25% goes to player
Versus armored enemies (below hard metal like steel): 20% damage to armor, 5% to player
Versus heavy armored enemies (steel and etc.): 5% damage to armor, none to player
Bone arrow:
Versus light armored enemies: 100% damage to armor + additional 50% goes to player
Versus armored enemies: 50% damage to armor, 25% to player
Versus heavy armored enemies: 15% damage to armor, 5% to player
Metal arrow:
Versus light armored enemies: 150% damage to armor + additional 75% goes to player
Versus armored enemies: 60% damage to armor, 20% to player
Versus heavy armored enemies: 35% damage to armor, 15% to player

Basically, idea is more about making arrows an armor destroyers with some little damage included to it, with some ability to make archers more viable in terms of having a real chance hitting a moving target if they can predict their movement and punishing people going just straight forward. So there's always a risk You get shot while trying to take down archer. Something like that. It shouldn't be that much OP I think.

[maze]

Ive talked about bows before.
JC has nailed it on the head.
They are either op or retarded.
The only fix for this is to make it something different other then dmg for PvP. Cripple/debuff.

Also PvP and pve damage should be different so that they interact differently.
Basically PvP = debuff
Pve = damage

[DDDsDD999]

Perhaps rework it in this way:

Double the speed of aiming bar
+
Depending on quality of the bow (or type!), the direction the player aims, has two additional aims in the 10° * X degree for both sides, where X is some kind of formula between the Q and type of bow? Dunno.
OR
Player can have two aiming directions (true + prediction), one visible (that has double speed) for everyone and "hidden" second one that they only know, with the regular speed.
+
We have 3 types of arrows at the moment so why not do this:
Stone arrow:
Versus light armored (leather) enemies: 75% damage straight to armor, remaining 25% goes to player
Versus armored enemies (below hard metal like steel): 20% damage to armor, 5% to player
Versus heavy armored enemies (steel and etc.): 5% damage to armor, none to player
Bone arrow:
Versus light armored enemies: 100% damage to armor + additional 50% goes to player
Versus armored enemies: 50% damage to armor, 25% to player
Versus heavy armored enemies: 15% damage to armor, 5% to player
Metal arrow:
Versus light armored enemies: 150% damage to armor + additional 75% goes to player
Versus armored enemies: 60% damage to armor, 20% to player
Versus heavy armored enemies: 35% damage to armor, 15% to player

Basically, idea is more about making arrows an armor destroyers with some little damage included to it, with some ability to make archers more viable in terms of having a real chance hitting a moving target if they can predict their movement and punishing people going just straight forward. So there's always a risk You get shot while trying to take down archer. Something like that. It shouldn't be that much OP I think.

Archery debuffing and damaging armour until it gets repaired could be cool, like status effects or such. Though it doesn't really solve the "there's no counterplay" argument.

[iamahh]

Seems archery it's too dynamic, so your ping matters too much, visual lag too... unlike regular pvp which accepts some latency

reminds Mount & Blade matches, where if your ping was higher than 50ms you were just wasting time

[Dondorion]

Why is archery useless in PvP? What reasonable changes could be made to make it more relevant?

I don't know much about PVP, but I find it useless in PVE too and maybe the mechanic problem is the same in both cases. I think it should be changed from a charging mechanic to an accuracy mechanic, as some have said already. The higher the marksmanship, the more accurate the shot, instant shot. The higher the target's dexterity*agility or something like that, the higher the chances to miss. Also, the faster you walk while shooting down, the higher the chances to miss (so the melee enemy would stand a chance).
Maybe new mechanics just for ranger's bow.

I'm just a hermit but I always prefer archers and mages over melee and yet I fight melee because archery is unpracticable

[Dondorion]

i always thought the aim bar was unqiue but odd. why do we have it?

i suggest bow have two combat modes, a short wait/aim/ready time and shoots in that direction using surprise. but once in combat the bow changes to a normal weapon using combat actions like any other weapon so 10s delay to switch weapon or combat style. use an arrow to attack and can be used at a distance and allow the spear be used in the same fashion

tldr: no more aim bar, no quick bow shots from the hip in combat, bow gets combat moves shared with thrown weapons

That's nice! So archery would have its own combat moves to be learned by killing mobs with arrow and allowing multiple targets too, like some UC/MC moves.

[ctopolon4]

archery in PvE is pretty nice (u could deal 3000 dmg in few shots)
archery in PvP sucks because :
1. tryHard to get PERC = AGI for dmg, AGI = AGI UAC=UAC for defence
2. no wounds from shooting, cant kill via shooting
3. no penetration (mostly bow dmg <= armor , so always deal 10-20 dmg per shot)
4. with no tank u able to make only 1-2 shots and run (very hard keep distance for shot)
5. big chance of friendly fire
6. mostly clients are shows bow's affected area
7. raw hide! = OP (no rider archers)
8. to start deal dmg like in PvE u have to destoy ~20-40k Armor