Treadmill world

[ricky]

Wouldn't this kind of suck if you lived on the east side of the world from the start though? I think everyone would just settle to the west.

let's say the first deletion/creation happens 1 year after server inception, and the first whole map reset happens 1 year after the first deletion. Those looking to settle for 2 years would settle the west, those who value a more risky lifestyle settle east. As the risk averse move west earlier, those who stay behind have the option to pick through the ruins of those who left early.

otherwise, don't reveal the direction until the first map deletion.

otherwise, expand in every cardinal direction for 1 year (deleting the center) and then contract for one year (deleting the outside). maybe make the black hole in the center not technically count as 'space' and you can just travel normally through the center

[pppp]

Heya p's.

Hey Sarge

Closer to E border would be ruins and left land / littered earth with roads, claimed resources to be milked last time before being swallowed by void

Hey, hey, do not arouse doomsayers like that. They are already quite agitated.

tedium

Moving larger single man projects would be indeed a problem.
Moving CF or kingdoms will be much less problematic. In case of CF I can easily see how managers of CF kindly ask merchants to provide necessary materials and labor to make a new trade hub or else ... In case of kingdoms I expect each kingdom to keep a chain of cairns up to the new world edge so they can move villages one by one as well as buffs. I would expect that some kingdoms may try to suffocate other kingdoms and literally cut them off from their future by claiming over their expansion path, so yeah, a fight for space.

Yes, structures will be built only as good as momentarily needed. That's a minus.

On the other hand I see people sticking to old designs and working with them instead of rebuilding in a better way. Forceful relocation might help some of them to rebuild in a better way, or quit if they are bored enough.
A new beginning is something people are often looking for, yet they lack courage to actually start anew.

It might help to let people choose in creation room to spawn either at the new side or at the old side.

Unclaimed land on the east side could decay into ocean, but villages (and some buffer terrain around it) could be preserved, resulting in the east becoming first an archipelago, followed by more and more sparse islands of the earliest, longest lasting villages. A village losing authority would be an Atlantis-level catastrophe.

That's how I imagined it. There are a few problems:
- it might create zones impossible to siege,
- perhaps there should be some forceful sinking of the land to allow removing almost emptied map stripes
- underground must be be flooded too
I'd prefer sinking made dependent on elevation rather than on being claimed. There could be a village or kingdom magic action to raise land on the whole claimed area, with cost increasing at each use.

[Granger]

Threadmill world could be fun, given no teleportation so moving to a new place would actually result in movement over the map.

In any case it wouldn't be way worse than what we have now (bloom, gloom, doom, repeat).

[Aceb]

Threadmill world could be fun, given no teleportation so moving to a new place would actually result in movement over the map.

In any case it wouldn't be way worse than what we have now (bloom, gloom, doom, repeat).

Yeah moving with your precious stuff, ANIMALS and rest of the item gang between people is really fun without being able to jump from point A to point B.
It's one thing to be opened for attack, it's other thing to not have a way to prevent that even a little
Treadmill world looks fun but it won't change much or even more, cause more trouble to everyone than it is now.

Ruins would still exist (making decaying useless in bigger scheme), even more than now
New players would be forced to spawn on top of active players, since old players moving to new land and new players spawning on new land, instead of having a chance to spawn on even little piece of untouched wilderness or on top of decayed ruins.
Fighting for new resources if people don't even fight for old, unless it's early world or very important resource.

[Granger]

Yeah moving with your precious stuff, ANIMALS and rest of the item gang between people is really fun without being able to jump from point A to point B.

Having to do that once a year or so wouldn't be that bad - and less work than having to start from scratch after a wipe.

Whole thing would only make sense though should numbers not increase endlessly as that would leave us with the old problems (see 'wipe now' choirs).

But yes, all ways this could be meaningfully implemented are unpopular to a certain group of vocal users that need constantly increasing numbers to be happy... so I guess (to lift from the joke about the death of capitalism) the tombstones of the H&H worlds will continue to read

______ R.I.P.______
-=- H&H World x -=-
Increasing numbers
up and beyond infinity
sadly wasn't enough

[Dakkan]

Unclaimed land on the east side could decay into ocean, but villages (and some buffer terrain around it) could be preserved, resulting in the east becoming first an archipelago, followed by more and more sparse islands of the earliest, longest lasting villages. A village losing authority would be an Atlantis-level catastrophe.

That's how I imagined it. There are a few problems:
- it might create zones impossible to siege,
- perhaps there should be some forceful sinking of the land to allow removing almost emptied map stripes
- underground must be be flooded too
I'd prefer sinking made dependent on elevation rather than on being claimed. There could be a village or kingdom magic action to raise land on the whole claimed area, with cost increasing at each use.

Or, a village structure (costing ever increasing auth/day) to keep it above sea level. Though, I'm more in favor of claim-based over elevation-based, to cater towards long term villages and megaprojects that might not be feasible on the side of a mountain. And as long as there is a serious buffer between the edge of the claim and shore, there's shouldn't be any sieging problems that don't already exist with current islands, just scaled up. And we already dig underneath lakes, why not the ocean? Same as it is now, the underground of the oldest villages will be heavily dug out and connected, the underground of fresh terrain will be untouched.

Also I gotta disagree with the idea that places like CF would be easier to relocate, it's so much more work than just having the resources. But, add buoys (roads on water) and the hypothetical CF in this scenario would continue to function as normal.

I think I just like the idea of the world around you changing into ocean, and dealing with that. But maybe I'm just craving regional variation in terrain, instead of the Brownian world we have currently.

[Aceb]

Yeah moving with your precious stuff, ANIMALS and rest of the item gang between people is really fun without being able to jump from point A to point B.

Having to do that once a year or so wouldn't be that bad - and less work than having to start from scratch after a wipe.

Whole thing would only make sense though should numbers not increase endlessly as that would leave us with the old problems (see 'wipe now' choirs).

But yes, all ways this could be meaningfully implemented are unpopular to a certain group of vocal users that need constantly increasing numbers to be happy... so I guess (to lift from the joke about the death of capitalism) the tombstones of the H&H worlds will continue to read

______ R.I.P.______
-=- H&H World x -=-
Increasing numbers
up and beyond infinity
sadly wasn't enough

It's clearly You're ignorant to how hard it is to travel with few animals, alone with whole herd. It's not about increasing numbers into the infinity. Unless something happens that makes moving comfortable, You will be denied in your face. And no it is not less work to move a base from point A to B, since to move everything that is move-able from point A to B, You would need to travel SEVERAL TIMES BOTH DIRECTIONS using a wagon. Imagine the time waste someone would need to perform in order to be sure, they game progress isn't lost. I used here wagon for no-teleporation method

Buying / hardcore playing for gaining/trading those materials You need, only to know that You will bash\abandon structures that You aren't capable of moving (ovens, smelters, kilns, etc.) or even having to lose projects, cool buildings that aren't that easy to build unless You use shop sketchpages.

Yeah Granger, because beside NUMBERS, I would cry to see people lose rock crystal towers or similar rare thing go to waste, just because people like You have number syndroms tied to thier minds and don't see problems being born from maybe fun but really not cool ideas. I just pointed out how a treadmill world and OP goals not only make everything worse, but don't solve actually anything.

edit: actually as I pointed out earlier, the only problem treadmill world would solve is to refresh underground. And that's the only positive thing about it.

[Granger]

Did you really just argue that moving stuff without teleporting is bad as it leads to interaction with other players?
That this might lead to a confrontation out in the open, in an open PvP MMORPG?
When one of the main complaints is there isn't enough fun things to do late game?

[Vraatjuh]

I really like the idea.

Some way I could see it work is that the the outside of the map clock-wise constantly sinks into water and creates new land.
In this case the middle grid would be a safe haven for everyone who wants to settle permanently (CF?) whilst the outside is constantly changing. Total duration of a full circle wash-up could be a year or so?

To spice things up the newly created land should have new resource qualities/naturual resources so people constantly have the chance to find new high quality resources or new natural resources.
Another 'reward' could be that the base quality of resource is higher in the outer areas to stimulate the settling there, with the constant knowledge that one day your settlement will be washed away by the sea.
New players could then spawn on the outer side of the 'safe haven' giving them a choice to settle inside the safe grid of settle in the danger area.

This way the big groups will have to pack up in the middle to keep their settlements, creating more kingdom action, whilst also having to continually explore/fight for new land and new resources.
An option would be to have no/limited natural resources in the middle map, so people are forced to at least explore the outer maps. This could also enhance trading.

[Aceb]

Did you really just argue that moving stuff without teleporting is bad as it leads to interaction with other players?
That this might lead to a confrontation out in the open, in an open PvP MMORPG?
When one of the main complaints is there isn't enough fun things to do late game?

No I just pointed out how big time waste for a player base would it be to spend a week to move yourself and do nothing else. No thanks. Better to have tourette than talking to You.