Better burial/state burial without rage

[wonder-ass]

tis fucking ez to not die go outside with literally 1 shp 000000000000000000000% chance to die.
(p.s. be full hhp unless youre retarded.)

[Kaios]

I don’t see why it’s reasonable to ask anyone to do that. If this mechanic weren’t in place and there was no question about whether or not you would die either way then there would be no reason to do stuff like that.

[MagicManICT]

nerfing death makes it pointless and meaningless making it so shit will get griefed more frequent because their is nothing to lose if you were to die.
the only thing im scared of after dying is combat discoveries getting that shit is a BITCH.

That's why Combat Instructions were put in game. I know it doesn't make it easy, but at least you have means of relearning things faster than the last character.

[Aceb]

I don't see any reason why it should benefit either of group.

[SnuggleSnail]

I think most players that flee while attempting to reduce their openings are more susceptible to dying this way than those who might just stand around and wait for the KO. Either way I feel it’s rather poor advice to tell someone the most ideal way to not die is to let yourself get pounded on quickly to take less HHP damage overall

lol it's a bit unsporting to convince them the best way to survive a gank is to stand still and not lower their openings

[Alayah]

How? Can you explain?

You are probably a lot more experienced in doing this, why dont you share your experiences on how to "accomplish" killing KO-protected players?

From my observation its most likely if you get attacked by more than one person. The goal is to time 2 big hitting attacks - like cleave - in quick succession with your buddy. It is likely that you get killed by the second attack if you are at low health from the first one. From several unrelated attacks i observed in that fashion only one person survived.

While losing a character does indeed suck, it should not put you behind by months. Your characters development is tied directly into your bases infrastructure (metal/soil/clay/crop/animal qualities).
For instance, it took me 2 days to reach 100k LP on my first character and that was with hardcore quest grinding and being relatively unlucky. Now after 2 months of playing efficiently, I am able to have ~100-200k LP being made just through curios per day and I'm a simple hermit that's played solo the entire time and doesn't use bots. Additionally, I have a hunting character I created about a month after my first character who has far surpassed my original characters attributes.

This game is about risk and reward. Even harvesting wax goes into the direction because you risk getting stung for higher and higher damage and the reward is wax. I stop plucking wax if I risk taking too much damage, thats even valid for an alt i could use. If, on the other hand, there is a chance of losing my main character thats like going all in during poker. The rewards must be in relation to my possible gains for that to happen. I am not going to risk my almost defenseless farmer on a credo-quest or some exploration. Even if the chances of getting attacked are remote. If I die with my farmer/crafter I might not be able to handle my crops or crafting anymore, likely for quite some time, which is effectively setting me or progression, back for months. Yet some credos are not really optional and you need to leave your walls for this. The only reliable counterplay is to avoid leaving your walls. You survive by minimizing your risk.

My suggestion aims at alleviating the discrepancy between risk and reward which is getting higher and higher the more time you invest in your character. At a certain point the best option is to not play/leave your walls. If i need a certain credo I will spawn a dedicated alt for this. Not sure if thats a design-paradigm thats desirable. Fighter-characters are a different song in my view since fighting is basically risk and reward.

[Ozzy123]

How? Can you explain?

You are probably a lot more experienced in doing this, why dont you share your experiences on how to "accomplish" killing KO-protected players?

From my observation its most likely if you get attacked by more than one person. The goal is to time 2 big hitting attacks - like cleave - in quick succession with your buddy. It is likely that you get killed by the second attack if you are at low health from the first one. From several unrelated attacks i observed in that fashion only one person survived.

So you literally have no idea how stuff works but you are writing an idea to change it? Makes sense. Killing non-rage players is pretty difficult and almost impossible if the defender has very low stats compared to the attacker(s).

[loleznub]

You are probably a lot more experienced in doing this, why dont you share your experiences on how to "accomplish" killing KO-protected players?

From my observation its most likely if you get attacked by more than one person. The goal is to time 2 big hitting attacks - like cleave - in quick succession with your buddy. It is likely that you get killed by the second attack if you are at low health from the first one. From several unrelated attacks i observed in that fashion only one person survived.

Timing your attacks will generally not make much of a difference in the end. If you're getting hit by 2+ people while running away, you're doing something very wrong. If two people hit you twice at 50/50 red/blue with a cleave, it is really just quicker for you to be going down.

For instance in a hypothetical 1v1:
You get opened to 50/50 red/blue.
You get cleaved at 50/50 red/blue.
If you don't get KO'd from the first, they reopen you again to 50/50 and then cleave again. Repeat this until you are KO'd.
You get looted.

A hypothetical 1v2:
You get opened to 50/50 red/blue.
You get cleaved at 50/50 red/blue.
If the first player that reaches you/has cooldown ready cleaves and you get KO'd, the other player can't cleave you instantly unless you have rage.
If you don't go down, then that second cleave will likely make you go down.

The only real difference between these two is the amount of time it is going to take to open you and get two cleaves in, if one isn't enough.

This game is about risk and reward. Even harvesting wax goes into the direction because you risk getting stung for higher and higher damage and the reward is wax. I stop plucking wax if I risk taking too much damage, thats even valid for an alt i could use. If, on the other hand, there is a chance of losing my main character thats like going all in during poker. The rewards must be in relation to my possible gains for that to happen. I am not going to risk my almost defenseless farmer on a credo-quest or some exploration. Even if the chances of getting attacked are remote. If I die with my farmer/crafter I might not be able to handle my crops or crafting anymore, likely for quite some time, which is effectively setting me or progression, back for months. Yet some credos are not really optional and you need to leave your walls for this. The only reliable counterplay is to avoid leaving your walls. You survive by minimizing your risk.

My suggestion aims at alleviating the discrepancy between risk and reward which is getting higher and higher the more time you invest in your character. At a certain point the best option is to not play/leave your walls. If i need a certain credo I will spawn a dedicated alt for this. Not sure if thats a design-paradigm thats desirable. Fighter-characters are a different song in my view since fighting is basically risk and reward.

Indeed, the game is risk and reward. If you don't want to risk your character for these "credo's that are not really optional", then you simply don't deserve them. Haven and Hearth is not, and will never be, a game that spoonfeeds people. By not taking these risks, you yourself would essentially be "killing your characters" without killing them. At least in the sense of losing the chance at long term progression bonuses through the Credo system by opting into taking no risks in the game.

If you don't want to take risks after a certain point, I again reiterate my previous point of making foraging / hunting alts with the sole purpose of leaving the walls so your "main" can cower behind the walls.

This also doesn't address the issue of how meaningless rage would become. Let's say this does get implemented, how would this benefit rage characters? How would it make death meaningful? If anything, if you want to make death not a big deal for non-rage characters you might as well just remove permadeath entirely at this point and just turn this into a full-loot system.

In a game that has one of it's most integral parts being focused on death being meaningful, this takes away in my opinion, one of the more unique things of Haven and Hearth.

Specifically on what I bolded, one of the main reasons to get Rage and begin fighting is to hamper and destroy your kingdoms enemies. If the kingdom can simply rebuild because their non-rage characters get 90% of their shit back, "Fighter characters" no longer have a "reward" in that risk-reward system. Who would bother risking a character for most likely shitty loot and not even making a real dent on the character they kill, IF they even manage to kill someone without rage.

[Alayah]

Killing non-rage players is pretty difficult and almost impossible if the defender has very low stats compared to the attacker(s).

If its impossible then why is everybody so opposed to this suggestion?

[Alayah]

This also doesn't address the issue of how meaningless rage would become. Let's say this does get implemented, how would this benefit rage characters? How would it make death meaningful? If anything, if you want to make death not a big deal for non-rage characters you might as well just remove permadeath entirely at this point and just turn this into a full-loot system.

In a game that has one of it's most integral parts being focused on death being meaningful, this takes away in my opinion, one of the more unique things of Haven and Hearth.

Death would be a lot more meaningful if you actually go through the motions of having to create a new character. As i suggested this should be implemented while also removing KO-Protection. For rage players this would mean that you can actually kill the guy not just cheese your way into his death by leeches, fleas or by exploiting the combat and wound system.