Satiations, global pools, hunger and how it's affected trade

[MooCow]

We need a wide range of specialist products so that noone could have the time or resources to make all products.

I am mad because I cant do everything, why should I choose to do just one thing! This hurt hermits the most!

There was a thread not too long ago that boiled down to me trying to say that making a small farm will make your life easy, and another person saying that small farms are impossible because animals.

Making a very small farm would be a solution, if you completely ignore the animal-related parts of the game.
Just for cheese, you need a bare minimum of 6 animals. That's a male and a female per kind, 3 kinds that produce milk, that's 6 total.
If you've ever done cheese, you know that you can't survive with only 1 baby animal a week (or so) to get suckling maws out of.
Pregnant animals eat A TON more, so the higher the number the more crops you'll need just to keep them fed.
If you want to add horses and pigs to the mix, you need at least 5 more animals (2 pigs, 3 horses assuming you don't use the breeding pair for travel, and being ok with only having 1 travel horse in a small group of people).

And with so few animals, we can safely assume you're not using them for getting higher quality mats from it, or jewels. I'm ok with having something to look forward to, but that should be a matter of days, not waiting weeks to get 1 object done.

People really really SHOULD choose just one type of cheese, cow, goat or sheep, doesn't matter. Then can then just trade for the others if they need them. People don't do what they should do. They expand until they hate themselves, then complain on the forum. I really wish there was a way to help people not do this, but alas I am just one person

[shubla]

At least the quests in their current form should be removed to increase the demand for curiosities.

I agree that quests should be nerfed ASAP. Or they could be changed to only provide xp, gilds and quality increases, not LP and hunger relief. Because those are the two biggest issues with quests.

[jock]

Token value has also dropped due to their saturation. They really should be usable to buy hats and sketchbooks.

ALL hats should be in the store forever, with decreasing cost the longer it's out. between these changes that would push up the value of tokens.

Quests are beaten to death. We all know the lp and hunger is bad as rewards.

Foragables SHOULD be buffed to be substantially better than most curio's as you need to go out and look for them. HOWEVER, they do need to have a modifier to be harder(5x) to find near village or pclaims.

Hunger/satiations are not in a good place. I think FEP Values overall need to be nerfed especially as the world gets rolling and you see things with hundreds of FEPS each.

Bulk foods should be valuable but they won't be with the current FEP values, Hunger and satiations system.

[Omnipotent]

Lots of very good points in this tread. I really hate the current satiation system as it is. Eating food in real life is never so RNG as it is in HnH. Not saying HnH should be exactly like real life, but it makes no sense at all. Sometimes you can eat a lot without any satiations, other times you eat one thing and you're done. It's not balanced at all.

The global pool really destroyed the curio market. There is pretty much no way to consistently farm them anymore.

At least the quests in their current form should be removed to increase the demand for curiosities.

I agree that quests should be nerfed ASAP. Or they could be changed to only provide xp, gilds and quality increases, not LP and hunger relief. Because those are the two biggest issues with quests.

+1 to this. Quests are so broken right now. It's by far the most valuable use of your time if you are trying to develop quickly, and it's purely RNG. Some people get huge benefits, others can get completely screwed. It's not balanced and is not fun to do.

The entire process of questing feels convoluted and prevents you from doing other things that should be far more important. I'd be okay with quests being removed entirely and only used for credos.

[Sevenless]

Welp, considering I've been brainstorming and literally can't think of anything I'm going to have to say yep anti-bot/anti-tedium measures have indirectly nuked noobs ability to generate value. Because when you think about it, noobs can offer tedium or luck as a product. Bots abuse both.

Some people asked to not need to make 2,000 pies to be optimal to reduce the chores the game gave you. Now we have no use for the 100 shitty pies noobs can make and we feel time gated in advancement. Hard to see all the rammifications. of suggestions. Possible answers, hell if I know they're good or not considering how we got here.

Rebuff noob accessible activity (foraging) and deal with forage bots existing. I don't think boosting study time is a good idea or factions won't be able to process everything eventually. The big problem is as the number of curios increase, the good ones worth using eventually pop up here and there and overshadow foraged curios. In general crafted curios are *mostly* crap, but there's just enough of them that are pretty good at high Q that they outweigh the hassle of better curios. Forageable foods being good are also a possibility. No one uses foraged diet because it's just not good enough for the effort to get it. Garden pots also significantly weakened foraging as well because they had to not be insane.

Daily rewards that can only be earned by active play. Basically some static good thing that has a degree of anti-alt/anti bot measure in it like LP/XP earned. Sure, could be botted/alted/abused to a degree, but it would fall under the "still useful to have more of" for factions. I would not want this tied to subs because that's back to "noobs only have value through RMT". Equivalent to log in bonuses in other games effectively.

Make an equivalent of cast iron for either foraged or farmed goods. I'm not a huge fan for how it works, but cast iron is ALWAYS useful. Any Q, it's good because it all stacks into the same process. Some kind of "Infinitely compressable" resource such that any Q is always useful could be created in foraging or farming. We don't need infinite food items, but what about something that buffs what we do eat? Pepper is an example of that concept that's not noob accessible, but we could make forageable equivalents for that.

Make quest rewards consumable items like wild dreams. Noobs could sell their product, factions would have infinite demand for instant boosting. Given immense resources someone could potentially catch up. Impacts on game development speed and probably breakable somehow? Yeah. I honestly think this is our most powerful option. Developed players don't need to quest, noobs have a way to leverage their desperation into doing useful tedium. But it's also a fairly dangerous idea, if it gets badly implemented or broken in ways we don't forsee the world balance could probably get trucked up.

Good luck devs.

[wonder-ass]

take the fucking rng out of satiations instead of saying 10% chance of satiating make it you can eat 10 before satiating, or just remove it cuz nobody likes the system.

[nosfirebird]

take the fucking rng out of satiations instead of saying 10% chance of satiating make it you can eat 10 before satiating, or just remove it cuz nobody likes the system.

drinks have been buffed people could grind quality of drink and then sell them i have no issues with satiation i have issues with food i cant get enough =( learn to eat correctly and experiment with various foods.

tho hunger does blow and should not go below 100%

[Potjeh]

Remove hunger.

[nosfirebird]

Notice a difference? The world 7 thread is full of things a noob could reasonably provide. Why? Because easy things like forageables and bears actually had value. Even silk had far more value in legacy than in current worlds because merchant robes were the end game robe where as now there are better options for fighters. Now, the forageable curios are quite rare and their LP per hour isn't even that good to compensate for the rarity. You can't trade bears as a noob anymore because they get hardcapped by your survival. Your only real option to break into the trade market at all is to buy sub tokens.

Same thing applies to food. In legacy we used to trade for cheese (any quality, because satiations and hunger didn't exist) but now you'd never do it because you can only eat a few pieces of a certain type of food per day and you can easily keep up with that demand without outside help. In legacy, if someone traded me 2 LCs of pumpkin pies i'd be happy, now they'd sit in my house for a few weeks because i couldn't reasonably eat them all. People used to trade for wall grade steel or wrought to make bwalls, but now bwalls aren't required (they help, but i dont think they help enough that most factions will build more than 1 if that). Noobs aren't reasonably going to get localized resources because the factions who will trade their high quality stuff for localized resources already walled them or camp them.

These nerfs to massing food/forageables have definitely hurt bots, but they've hurt the trade market far, far more. The market revolves around RMT partly because of sub tokens, but also partly because you've nerfed the ability of noobs to provide anything of value in your fight to devalue bots.

i would trade for midnight blue cheese i could eat around 150/day at current q of wine
there is no way to combat bots with the current coding the devs have said it many times
anything they add that noobs could sell that is valuable would quickly devalue since factions can craft/forage it 10x faster
there shouldnt be things that noobs can easily sell they are noobs after all

[boshaw]

would quickly devalue since factions can craft/forage it 10x faster

W7 was heavily botted and the value of items commonly botted were still good and sought after.