Aging with a flexible stat cap

[Mario_Demorez]

What would this fix? Why add this?

[Granger]

What would this fix? Why add this?

It's an attempt to come up with something that has the effects of stat decay without actually being stat decay (as that isn't liked by some who don't get the bigger picture) - but as it isn't it stat decay it won't solve the problems that stat decay would remove from the game and instead cause different ones.

[pppp]

What would this fix? Why add this?

This has been already answered earlier.
As for why even consider any kind of cap refer to one of other threads, there are plenty of these in past months.

It's an attempt to come up with something that has the effects of stat decay without actually being stat decay (as that isn't liked by some who don't get the bigger picture) - but as it isn't it stat decay it won't solve the problems that stat decay would remove from the game and instead cause different ones.

For once it would NOT cause problems a stat decay mechanics would do, namely constantly erasing your daily progress. So no, the point was not to achieve effects of stat decay but to cap stats and quality progres in such way that it does not feel like a hard cap nor like Sisyphus work, but there is always space for some, even if token, progress.

I am repeating myself but the core idea is to provide a flexible cap which can be pushed further (within some limits) at a cost of sacrifice and possibly extra effort. Basically a kind of softcap that gradually turns into hardcap as the player is pushing behind the limit. As opposed to decay which would deliver bad effects of crossing the line immediately, in my proposal the bad effects are postponed and can be somewhat managed but can not be entirely avoided. That leaves a space for reaching craftsmanship peaks no one is willing nor able to copy because of required amount of grind. That is a niche for short-lived legendary crafters whose work would be treated as unique.

Besides the point is to make death not the end but rather a gate to a better life and also to make it something more common and inevitable as stated here:

cemetery.png

cause different ones.

Please be more specific.

[Granger]

It's an attempt to come up with something that has the effects of stat decay without actually being stat decay (as that isn't liked by some who don't get the bigger picture) - but as it isn't it stat decay it won't solve the problems that stat decay would remove from the game and instead cause different ones.

For once it would NOT cause problems a stat decay mechanics would do, namely constantly erasing your daily progress.

Right, aging would erase the progress made over weeks/months (or even years) by the character succumbing to it.

Decay would attach a running cost (the need to continue feeding LP+FEP to keep at a current level) to characters, which would:
- remove the ability to pre-produce and hibernate (combat) characters at no cost for indefinite timespans
- through this attach a maintenance cost to alts (no longer viable to LP+FEP up one once for a certain task and be done for the rest of the world)
- level characters according to what they are (keeping on) doing, instead of it being the sum of what they (and their ancestors) did since day 0
- through this allowing to re-balance things mid-world and even allowing the world to cleanly recover from fuckups like kebab or the spiced axes
- remove the permanent penalty of dying, taking breaks, joining late or not having played optimally the whole time

This isn't really addressed by the age suggestion, especially not in case it's only accounting time spent online toward age.

So no, the point was not to achieve effects of stat decay but to cap stats and quality progres in such way that it does not feel like a hard cap nor like Sisyphus work, but there is always space for some, even if token, progress.

When it isn't limiting it would only slow down the inevitable, which dosn't do the trick for me. I look at this from the perspective of enabling a non-resetting world that stays meaningful to characters of any age - that goal needs to put a limit to the numbers and always being able to push a bit more (which could, and will, be automated) is incompatible with that.

Also a hardcap (that this would boil down to, as you stated in the next paragraph) would lead to all players eventually having grinded to the maximum ability of the optimal level, regardless of being casual or hardcore, eventually removing any difference in player dedication from characters. Decay wouldn't do that, playing 'better' (more optimal than someone playing the same amount of time - or compensating lacking optimization through spending more online time) would still make a difference - just no longer, compared to now, a permanent one.

I am repeating myself but the core idea is to provide a flexible cap which can be pushed further (within some limits) at a cost of sacrifice and possibly extra effort. Basically a kind of softcap that gradually turns into hardcap as the player is pushing behind the limit. As opposed to decay which would deliver bad effects of crossing the line immediately, in my proposal the bad effects are postponed and can be somewhat managed but can not be entirely avoided.

But, as far as I understand the suggested mechanic, could be worked around for long enough to make it somewhat meaningless. It also feels a bit like credo suicide mechanic applied to character stats. And it would also be 'punishing' to actually play the game (as any actions speed up age), just with plenty of loopholes that can (and thus likely will) be exploited - likely resulting in failing to reach the goal of less imbalance.

That leaves a space for reaching craftsmanship peaks no one is willing nor able to copy because of required amount of grind. That is a niche for short-lived legendary crafters whose work would be treated as unique.

Which (items being a one-off thing that stay as-is for eternity) would also be incompatible with putting a limit on the numbers. Removing the currently possible endless progression from characters inevitably brings the need to remove permanence from items and objects, them no longer having a sink through being obsoleted by the items of better quality tomorrow would lead to death of trade (as at some point everyone would have everything in best possible). It's a different topic how this could work, but it's an inevitable consequence of any change that removes endless progression.

Besides the point is to make death not the end but rather a gate to a better life and also to make it something more common and inevitable as stated here:

cemetery.png

I agree with death being a part of a characters life, problem with death in current Haven is that you will likely encounter ones that havn't (yet) died and thus (as they're the sum of their actions since their creation) can massively overpower you, unless you also never died and have played as optimal as the other the whole time. It seems to me that the proposed mechanic will just turn the 'havn't (yet) died' into 'have died often enough' and as of that won't really solve at least the problems with holidays, starting late or not having played optimally since day 0.

Please be more specific.

Decay would give equality of opportunity (as outcome is based on current actions taken) while aging would give eventual equality of outcome.
I prefer the former as it IMHO would allow for a more dynamic game while removing many of the biggest issues that reduce the potential of this game.