Cave Hermit Study Speed

[SnuggleSnail]

There's a lot to unpack here

You need to get the bonus 24/24 hours instead of 16/24?

So the game is only punishes me for playing the game when I'm actually playing the game. Big brain argument that definitely doesn't exemplify why the bonus being conditional should be changed

Also to just adress cave hermit like this is a bit strange.
Many credos hold overpowered otherwise inaccessible features.

idk, I feel like we all agree credos are busted. I'm pretty sure all credos could be fixed with tweaks/balancing as opposed to an overhaul to the entire system, though. Saying one thing is bad, therefore you can't fix another bad thing seems super reductive.

All Credos already come with a penalty.

Simply untrue, there is no direct downside from any credo, including cave hermit. It incentivizes playing in an unfun way. Point me to a credo with a penalty attached to it.

Personal beliefs had penalties, and people liked them

Citation needed. I hated having to arbitrarily switch characters to do different things. I think most people did. The only arguably interesting thing about the sliders was tradition/progress.

If credos that had powerful bonuses also had penalties, they would ideally no longer be "mandatory"

Yes, if we lived in a different world where things worked differently, then things would work differently. All of the relevant credos are functionally mandatory.

Specialization is an interesting and relevant trade-off.

I guess I specialized into sleeping in a cave and consuming resources at a faster rate, while losing benefits if I attempt to create these resources myself? This specialization is sure gonna attract a very specific kind of person, and they sure aren't any kind of hermit.

and working on minimizing their impact is interesting.

iNtErEsTiNg AnD fUn WoRkArOuNd

Imagine a credo that increased your weapon damage by 50%, but cut your health in half. An ideal group of solders would have some with the credo and some without. Why? technically, in point for point fight the person with 150% damage and 50% health will lose. In a 2v2 having one person with the credo gives you an advantage.

idk how you came to this conclusion, or why you think it's relevant... But I'd like to point out this game has static damage reduction on armor, and also you're allowed to pick your target

Optimizing the fun out of the game is a natural part of being ultra-competitive.

Wanting a development rate bonus better than a Pneck is not being "ultra-competitive", it's being a normal human that vaguely cares at least a little bit. Also, "games should intentionally be made less fun for competitive players with no discernible upside" is not exactly a sentiment that will get you a bunch of game design awards.

The point of the cave hermit credo was always to be a cave hermit. If you live outside, only diving into a whole when you study, you are not a cave hermit. For these people, the credo isn't functioning as intended. The fun part comes when you build your base underground, and never see the light of day again

Really? When did Jorb/Loftar tell you they intended this, because from the outside perspective it seemed like a bunch of semi-arbitrary objectives to achieve semi-arbitrary rewards with a theme vaguely attached. If this is the case I'd point out 100% of the cave hermits I know are in fact not hermits, and consume/interact with objects that require overworld access to produce more than anything in caves. Seems like cavehermit is way more broken than we thought, bois





My friends, I just want to use alts less.
There is literally no upside to this being conditional, and no downside to the condition being removed

[Headchef]

Actual cave hermits get bonus continuously.
You using it as boost on your main only get it while you reside in cave and game makes it so you often choose not to be..
Seems fair.

There's no slight balancing possible for most things I think, either it's mandatory or irrelevant, wherever we could end up in the middle would just be meh and would make credos not worth pursuing.

[SnuggleSnail]

Yes, and I will choose to boost my main with it as much as possible - making the game less fun for no reason other than "it MaKeS sEnSe ThEmEaTiCaLlY LOL". It's literally the retarded realism argument wearing a fake moustache. You should have to wash your carrots before eating them because it "MaKeS sEnSe ReLaIsTiCaLlY LOL"

Nomad/Lumberjack/Miner, and to a lesser extent Gardener are all examples of balanced credo rewards IMO.

[Headchef]

Yes let's start off by saying hey this is overpowered but if you don't remove it then might as well buff it (???)
Because it's not fun if the potential in my head (permanent lvl 9 bonus) gets ruined by the game because I'm not on lvl 9 all the time. So yes guys this totally makes sense.

So yes let me tell you about thematically washed carrot realism because I think you just don't want to buff this mechanic because of making less fun on purpose.

Please change game so I get all buffs that are actually overpowered not only situationally but just all the time because it's more fun for me to get bigger numbers for free thank for read x d main reason for those credos is to unlock other ones but they're not extremely game breaking like the rest sure.

[MadNomad]

I think it's overpowered and should be removed

still less than the subtoken bonus, so it's clear that it shouldn't be changed first

you wouldn't be a cave hermit if you didn't hermit in a cave, so it is clearly working as intended.

now go crawl back to your cave

[jorb]

Will look at it at some point.

[MooCow]

Simply untrue, there is no direct downside from any credo, including cave hermit. It incentivizes playing in an unfun way. Point me to a credo with a penalty attached to it.

Every credo makes all future credos harder to get.

Citation needed [for people liking personal beliefs]. I hated having to arbitrarily switch characters to do different things. I think most people did. The only arguably interesting thing about the sliders was tradition/progress.

I know many people of the form complained about them, but all the people I have ever played with liked it. They were all a bunch of low level noobs like me. Feel free to think I am lying. Nature/Industry was a problem because it excluded you from an important part of the game. IMO, none of the more 'default' credos shouldn't have downsides at all, and the exotic credos shouldn't have anything behind them. If you 'HAVE' to get a credo, why does the game punish you for doing so?

Optimizing the fun out of the game is a natural part of being ultra-competitive.

Wanting a development rate bonus better than a Pneck is not being "ultra-competitive", it's being a normal human that vaguely cares at least a little bit. Also,

I guess I specialized into sleeping in a cave and consuming resources at a faster rate, while losing benefits if I attempt to create these resources myself? This specialization is sure gonna attract a very specific kind of person, and they sure aren't any kind of hermit.

iNtErEsTiNg AnD fUn WoRkArOuNd

You are currently choosing to optimism the fun out of your game. I manage to avoid the temptation to play in a way that ruins my fun, but I am spruce cap. If you are not a competitive player, then this situation is pretty dire. Mid teir players should not be tempted into using such awful play styles.

"games should intentionally be made less fun for competitive players with no discernible upside" is not exactly a sentiment that will get you a bunch of game design awards.

I didn't say it was good nor did I say that games should be made that way, I said it was natural and it is the Ultra-Competitive players that make it that way
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4137782.stm
This guy was NOT having fun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft ... ral_impact
Lot of awards and critic acclaim

Imagine a credo that increased your weapon damage by 50%, but cut your health in half. An ideal group of solders would have some with the credo and some without. Why? technically, in point for point fight the person with 150% damage and 50% health will lose. In a 2v2 having one person with the credo gives you an advantage.

idk how you came to this conclusion, or why you think it's relevant... But I'd like to point out this game has static damage reduction on armor, and also you're allowed to pick your target

The very simple example is intended to show a perk that isn't ideal for everyone to have. Most team based fighting games have the option to play someone that does more damage and has less health. A team only compromised of these people will get destroyed by a more balanced one. Team Fortress 2 is a good example because in that game nothing ever stops you from 'choosing your targets' yet magically people manage to get the enemy to attack the higher hp players.

Really? When did Jorb/Loftar tell you they intended this, because from the outside perspective it seemed like a bunch of semi-arbitrary objectives to achieve semi-arbitrary rewards with a theme vaguely attached. If this is the case I'd point out 100% of the cave hermits I know are in fact not hermits, and consume/interact with objects that require overworld access to produce more than anything in caves. Seems like cavehermit is way more broken than we thought, bois

I like to assume that when they designed the credo they didn't intend to involve a degenerate behavior that is currently ruining your fun. I hope for swift action correcting this issue.

My friends, I just want to use alts less.
There is literally no upside to this being conditional, and no downside to the condition being removed

The game currently pulls us in many different directions.
This is a brief, and incomplete list of things that pull us towards alting

• FEPs system that punishes players with unbalanced stats trying to balance them
• The curio system
• Increasing LP requirements for stats
• Crime
• Perma death
• Increasing Credo requirements
• Item protection

This is a complete list of things that make pull us away from alting

• Fun
• Experience system

Personally I think the game is just made for alting, and the game should just try to make that the most fun way to play. Perhaps somehow combining charters on an account, so they share LP/EXP. I really know what the solution is.

[KwonChiMin]

Also, lets rework some other overpowered credo bonuses:
Forager:
Chasing small animal bonus speed should work only out of combat. Or if not - be a permanent bonus.
Fisherman:
Increased speed when swimming should work only out of combat. Or if not - apply also to moving in any water.
Strider:
EVERY bonus should work only out of combat. Or if not - blah blah blah.
etc etc

Cave hermit works as it should work, it is a ultimate credo for working inside the caves, and it works when you are inside the caves. Yes, you can feel obliged to use those bonuses, but hey... Those 13.5% study boost (IF you have access to lvl 9, else 12% or even less) are nothing compared to quests that you are skipping if you are staying underground.

And the road to this credo gives you additional 6 quests to complete each level of credo, so the downside of getting it is pretty balanced by studyboost.

[bitza]

I own a bed, so wounds should heal at the same rate whether I'm in the bed or not. It's just good gameplay people

[DDDsDD999]

I own a bed, so wounds should heal at the same rate whether I'm in the bed or not. It's just good gameplay people

I'd agree with that tbh. One of the most annoying things they've added is wounds and how they actively promote you NOT playing the game.