token sinks

[MagicManICT]

Before tokens there was a possibility to buy many things without tokens.
These days if you want to buy anything, you need tokens.

Before tokens, you needed pearls. Haven't you been the biggest voice on the "change pearl mechanics," too, and claiming you haven't found any?

[shubla]

asd

The fact that trade revolves around real money is wrong in the first place. And before tokens, rmt was not very common.
Tokens should be just removed completely and replaced with ability to gift subscription to some account name via store or something.

Adding ability to use tokens for hats or something is a terrible idea. Value of them would skyrocket and no one would accept anything else than tokens, ever.
In legacy, there were many things that even noobs could acquire, and people would buy them, worth a good price. (pearls, edels, bluebells, flotsams, glimmers, often food and curios even!)

These days, people either don't buy them at all, or undervalue them, basically forcing people to use tokens.
Maybe it is partly fault of some other game mechanics, but still, removing tokens or ability to use them for trading like they are being used currently is the first step towards better trading.

[MagicManICT]

The fact that trade revolves around real money is wrong in the first place. And before tokens, rmt was not very common.

I wont' say how common it was or wasn't. I don't know. I know it was a rare thing to see it mentioned w7 or prior (though I did hear it about it in the background). I agree, it probably shouldn't get in the way of the game experience, but when some people have money, and other people have time, it's a natural thing to exchange one for the other. Such is life. It's a discussion we can go around in circles on, but you can't stop people's natural needs and desires.

Another thing to mention is that we didn't have hats and subscriptions, either. It's pretty hard to say that one is the natural result of the other when there are more than a couple variables involved.

Tokens should be just removed completely and replaced with ability to gift subscription to some account name via store or something.

But what is the fundamental difference? You're still involved in the exact same thing. At least now if I'm a person with money, I have a reliable means of transfering value to another player. If I'm the other player, I have a reliable means of obtaining some value (a month subscription) for my time and effort. If I get a bit more than I need I can, if I choose, trade away the excess to other players, and maybe make a small profit it along the way.

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edit: I think I should add that this is probably the 100th time we've had this discussion, and it's probably off topic, so apologies for going here. If people cannot recognize the fact that any economy is a free market with or without the strict controls are just fooling themselves and blind to what goes on behind the curtains. The only question is the amount of risk a person is willing to put up to get what they want.

That said, as long as we are dealing with subscription fees, registrations, cosmetic hats, etc, then there's not much we as players can do. The only thing I can think is possibly convincing the developer that a different economic model is needed, but simply saying "remove this" isn't enough of an argument. Showing how your economics are going to work will be required.

[shubla]

Tokens should be just removed completely and replaced with ability to gift subscription to some account name via store or something.

But what is the fundamental difference? You're still involved in the exact same thing. At least now if I'm a person with money, I have a reliable means of transfering value to another player. If I'm the other player, I have a reliable means of obtaining some value (a month subscription) for my time and effort. If I get a bit more than I need I can, if I choose, trade away the excess to other players, and maybe make a small profit it along the way.

The problem with tokens is that some people have hundreds of them in their cupboards, and they still buy more.
If tokens were replaced with ability to gift subscription to account name, people couldn't just hoard cupboards of these tokens, so they would stop buying them.

When devs added tokens, did they want to give people ability to give subscriptions to their friends more easily, or introduce an universal currency to the game, which would ruin the trading?

[Agrik]

you can't stop people's natural needs and desires.

You can. That's called upbringing and education, and that's what differs cultured people from animals that poop where they felt natural need and grab whatever they got natural desire to use for themselves.

[Lyrroth]

money behind scenes happened in legacy. tokens are perfectly fine where they are (maybe a sink is necessary indeed) and it fits how many other games also offer similar thing albeit via auction house.

[mvgulik]

The problem with tokens is that some people have hundreds of them in their cupboards, and they still buy more.

Perfect nonsensical. Which usually means someone has run out of proper arguments.

1) Its there cupboards, so what if they like to fill them with tokens.
2) Its there money, so what if they like to buy even more tokens.
3) I doubt anyone that has those two behaviours is inclined to spend there tokens on anything (including token sinks).

PS: Are you looking to spent some tokes to clear up some cupboard space ? ... Just wondering.

[shubla]

The problem with tokens is that some people have hundreds of them in their cupboards, and they still buy more.

Perfect nonsensical. Which usually means someone has run out of proper arguments.

1) Its there cupboards, so what if they like to fill them with tokens.
2) Its there money, so what if they like to buy even more tokens.
3) I doubt anyone that has those two behaviours is inclined to spend there tokens on anything (including token sinks).

PS: Are you looking to spent some tokes to clear up some cupboard space ? ... Just wondering.

What are you talking about proper arguments? All things in your list are nonsensical.
1. Problem is, that to fill the cupboards, they must buy them. And then they don't buy anything else than tokens in their shops.
2. I don't care what others use the money for, the problem is that what if I don't want to buy tokens to get a q60 shovel? What if I want to play the game to get something to buy these items. If tokens are all that people want, I cannot buy anything without them.
3. I am sure that many people who currently have hundreds of tokens would be glad to spend them on hats and other things, and as a result, want even MORE tokens, as then there would be even more demand for them.

[mvgulik]

All things in your list are nonsensical.

Lol, copycat.

How would having less tokens inside the game stop traders(any level) from asking only tokens in there shops ?

Suppose tokens where eliminated overnight for in-game trading.
What kind of in-game trading system do you think would come into play ?
(if any, as it might just as well keel over)

[Granger]

Suppose tokens where eliminated overnight for in-game trading.
What kind of in-game trading system do you think would come into play ?
(if any, as it might just as well keel over)

Hopefully the one we had before eating nerfs killed demand for food and gardening pots made foraging irrelevant and tokens made trade pay2win.