Make Theft Great Again

[czitcpkv]

I think it is funny when people throw tantrums over ideas they don't like while pulling numbers out of their ass, resorting to ad-hominem insults, shouting the loudest as if it appears they speak for "90 percent" of players or their argument is somehow stronger.

Definitely, if you rope in, you should only be able to tresspass/steal, not vandalize. No killing livestock no harvesting crops, no dropping sand fleas. Roping in should give some kind of debuff state that restricts what you can do:

Lockpicking should be a lot harder so villages can actually protect what's really important.

And, actually stealing while under debuff should do like 20 HHP damage. Or something like that.

This is reasonable. Let's start talking solutions instead of shooting down ideas, thanks.

Thievery could definitely be made great without ruining the game. It just requires some brainstorming.

If you have no solutions there is no reason to post about it being a shit idea. For it to not be shit requires brainstorming.

[MagicManICT]

This is reasonable. Let's start talking solutions instead of shooting down ideas, thanks.

Except there is no "reasonable solution" here that would result in keeping the majority of the players around to put up with a few mischievous imps. Sure, a good "breaking in" mechanic would be fun to have for some, but can you realistically balance it? Nope. (FYI, you didn't answer my question of what other MMO contains such a mechanic. Maybe pointing out a game that is successful with it might change minds as to whether it can even be done and players stay happy.)

[czitcpkv]

This is reasonable. Let's start talking solutions instead of shooting down ideas, thanks.

Except there is no "reasonable solution" here that would result in keeping the majority of the players around to put up with a few mischievous imps. Sure, a good "breaking in" mechanic would be fun to have for some, but can you realistically balance it? Nope. (FYI, you didn't answer my question of what other MMO contains such a mechanic. Maybe pointing out a game that is successful with it might change minds as to whether it can even be done and players stay happy.)

Ok, you've stated your opinion that implementing theft as a gameplay mechanic is completely inconceivable and impossible. If you have nothing else to contribute please stop trolling the thread, or make a list of all the problems you have.

[Granger]

If you have nothing else to contribute please stop trolling the thread, or make a list of all the problems you have.

The attempt to frame him as a troll... is funny, to put it mildly.

You could start with addressing

FYI, you didn't answer my question of what other MMO contains such a mechanic. Maybe pointing out a game that is successful with it might change minds as to whether it can even be done and players stay happy.

Please don't get me wrong, having something that is between 'nothing happens' and 'full base death from siege' would be a good thing.
The problem is just that there's not real way implement something like this in a way that both won't be completely circumvented and dosn't allow for easy griefing.

[czitcpkv]

But even with all that, I dunno. Even though I'd like to be a thief, you need people actually playing the game for that to be a possibility and I worry that enabling thieving would take that away.

If time was taken to iron out the concept and balance it, it would result in more players. To non-thieves it would become another aspect of survival, security and base building. Many of them are understandably too traumatized to imagine it being anything other than annoying, so it's up to those of us who like the idea to figure out how it should work

It's also absurd to claim that only "a dozen" players would want to be thieves. How anyone could be so afraid of the outcome and say that in the same sentence is hilarious.

Not only would likely tons of current mischievous players love this, but theft as it is draws a lot of players to the game because the freedom is not something many games allow. Anyone who has ever bumped into random noobs learns this quickly. That's literally the first lesson of Haven 101.

If these more mischievous and solitary players had more to do besides live in caves and steal wheelbarrows the player retention would increase massively, in my estimate.

I think the main problem here is that there is a spectrum of players. On one end there's players who hate hardcore mechanics so much that anything causing them to become victims is unbalanced, and the other end want to do whatever they want at other players' expense. Clearly the game is meant to be somewhere in the middle. I'm hesitant to engage with anyone who isn't willing to discuss with examples how an idea would or wouldn't be balanced. If it could theoretically be balanced I don't see how anyone could possibly think it goes against the spirit of the game

If somebody is automatically against it I can only assume they're just a negative person or want to rid the game of all hardcore/competitive aspects.

The game isn't even balanced as it is. It's in "eternal alpha" and there are infinite ways to abuse power in the game. If that pisses you off so much you should go play another game instead of trying to prevent new things from being tested.

If you think it's a bad time to test out volatile mechanics without fixing the current game, nobody is saying this should be added immediately, and the devs will probably never add it anyway.

Every "reason" not add this so far could have been made about sieges if they weren't already in the game.

The only reason needed to add this is that it would be awesome and fits the concept of the game. Everything else is a matter of "how", not "why".

[Groniak]

1-It's also absurd to claim that only "a dozen" players would want to be thieves.

2- On one end there's players who hate hardcore mechanics so much that anything causing them to become victims is unbalanced, and the other end want to do whatever they want at other players' expense. Clearly the game is meant to be somewhere in the middle. I'm hesitant to engage with anyone who isn't willing to discuss with examples how an idea would or wouldn't be balanced. If it could theoretically be balanced I don't see how anyone could possibly think it goes against the spirit of the game

3- If somebody is automatically against it I can only assume they're just a negative person or want to rid the game of all hardcore/competitive aspects.

4- The game isn't even balanced as it is. It's in "eternal alpha" and there are infinite ways to abuse power in the game.

5- Every "reason" not add this so far could have been made about sieges if they weren't already in the game.

1- Indeed, the internet is full of trollkins...Don't see how that helps your point tho...

2- ''causing them to become victims is unbalanced'' Well yeah...who wants to be a victim? Being a victim means you cant do anything about it.

3- That's a pretty negative thing to say

4- Why should more ways to abuse be added then?!?

5- I strongly disagree; A siege take time to execute, and there are ways to defend against it. What you are talking about would be instantaneous wall climbing\flash robbery and instant retreat....then what is to stop the thief from hiding behind his own walls? what then? how do you get back at the thief? We would have to siege the thief ourselves.....then he'd build archery towers..... Then nothing would get done, and the thief wins by default.

[czitcpkv]

1-It's also absurd to claim that only "a dozen" players would want to be thieves.

2- On one end there's players who hate hardcore mechanics so much that anything causing them to become victims is unbalanced, and the other end want to do whatever they want at other players' expense. Clearly the game is meant to be somewhere in the middle. I'm hesitant to engage with anyone who isn't willing to discuss with examples how an idea would or wouldn't be balanced. If it could theoretically be balanced I don't see how anyone could possibly think it goes against the spirit of the game

3- If somebody is automatically against it I can only assume they're just a negative person or want to rid the game of all hardcore/competitive aspects.

4- The game isn't even balanced as it is. It's in "eternal alpha" and there are infinite ways to abuse power in the game.

5- Every "reason" not add this so far could have been made about sieges if they weren't already in the game.

1- Indeed, the internet is full of trollkins...Don't see how that helps your point tho...

2- ''causing them to become victims is unbalanced'' Well yeah...who wants to be a victim? Being a victim means you cant do anything about it.

3- That's a pretty negative thing to say

4- Why should more ways to abuse be added then?!?

5- I strongly disagree; A siege take time to execute, and there are ways to defend against it. What you are talking about would be instantaneous wall climbing\flash robbery and instant retreat....then what is to stop the thief from hiding behind his own walls? what then? how do you get back at the thief? We would have to siege the thief ourselves.....then he'd build archery towers..... Then nothing would get done, and the thief wins by default.

2. That is literally not the definition of victim

4. Literally ignored the counterarguments following the exact sentence you quoted

5. Didn't even read the thread or attempt to understand the idea you are criticizing.

[Groniak]

5. Didn't even read the thread or attempt to understand the idea you are criticizing.

Considering you never answer to other's points other than by a quick rebuttal, i would say neither are you?

But let's say you are actually reading our arguments: You mentioned ropes should be ''easy to spot'' but take a short time to set....Ok great, they are easy to spot, now how long exactly are we talking for this setup time?
It seems like all you want here, is a way to steal from people that requires less time and effort than sieging them, but then what about retribution? If the victim wants justice to be done, he's gonna have to siege you, and take the full time to break your walls etc. How is that fair and balanced gameplay?

Not to mention everyone needs to sleep\work etc, there is a reason why getting into someone's base should take time. Nobody wants to risk getting robbed every time they leave their CPU...

Also as far as i understand it (do correct me if I'm wrong) and according to wiki: It is important to note that Nidbanes can only be summoned using scents left by characters possessing the Rage skill.
That means the only way you can ever do anything against the thief is to buy Rage, something a lot of people don't want to do with the current drawbacks of the skill.

[borka]

Raged scents ...

Crimes against property -- Vandalism and Theft -- are unaffected by this.

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... 534d26ec6f

[MagicManICT]

Nidbanes are pretty much a joke to begin with, especially after the last round of nerfs to them.