Nerf Garden Pots

[pawnchito]

I disagree with this premise. I don't think you need to take away something away from gardening in order to buff foraging. You are right that foraging sucks for the most part because not many interesting things are available. There have been a few threads with ideas of foragable only items that could be added to make it relevant.

[sabinati]

did you forget how badly they got shit on when they did that like a few months ago? and then undid it immediately?

the problem isn't the current state of garden pots, it's the current state of forageable items. adding something worthwhile to forage for, or buffing something that already exists that can't be grown in pots solves the problem in a better way.

i mean people used to go out and hunt too but why bother at this point when there's good cheese and domestic animals and etc? or is your solution to nerf those as well?

[The_Lich_King]

did you forget how badly they got shit on when they did that like a few months ago? and then undid it immediately?

the problem isn't the current state of garden pots, it's the current state of forageable items. adding something worthwhile to forage for, or buffing something that already exists that can't be grown in pots solves the problem in a better way.

i mean people used to go out and hunt too but why bother at this point when there's good cheese and domestic animals and etc? or is your solution to nerf those as well?

Yes actually, but i get your point. If we go down the road of nerfing something to buff something else it will just become a balancing act of nerfing things to buff other things and then nerfing the other thing because the original is no longer useful. I agree that it is probably better to buff useless things or create more useful things than nerf the already useful things.

That being said domestic animals need to be nerfed harcore, or hunted animals need to be buffed xD

[MagicManICT]

If we go down the road of nerfing something to buff something else it will just become a balancing act of nerfing things to buff other things[...]

This is an MMORPG... isn't that what we're supposed to do to balance things out?

When I first saw this thread, I thought the idea was silly because, as azrid points out, it doesn't really improve foraging any. After looking at it again, it does force players to either go out and forage or to trade for those items in the first place. So I suppose that is accomplishing the goal, but I'm not sure I like the means.

The problem I see is with where we are in the world now... q400ish (I think) crops (if nothing else, should be near there). How long is that going to take me to raise those q40ish mushrooms I picked up to something that isn't going to totally fuck the quality of my food item? That also begs the question of "how long/how many pots (and required mulch and bins) will this take for an active, hungry village" and the answer rolls around to "a stupidly large number."

I'd rather just see garden pots disappear and come up with other means of boosting foraging quality. I'd be willing to play with it for a while on the condition of "if it's not working, remove it," but I have very strong doubts on it working or being even marginally useful.

As far as the point Lich_King makes... As silly as it sounds, either certain foods need nerfed (and a few buffed) or something done to balance out what a player is willing to eat. If all you need to eat is cheese and a few other "domestically sourced" foods, you have no reason to go out. If a player has to go hunting, then the meta of the game changes and players will do this.

A bit of a ramble, but bear with me: I guess it comes down to the question "is this an iron age setting with similar tech and domestication, or a tool age setting with the hunter-forager still being the primary way of life?" Then you roll around to azrid's point of "it's tech progression in the game, and should foraging and hunting really be relevant once domestication and farming are in place?" In which case, maybe the argument should be "why bother with having foraging in the game in the first place?"

[boreial]

The "Why Bother" is because this is a progressive from hunter gatherer, to industrialization era. without the initial hunting and gathering then you have no basis to implement any industry.

Posting my opinion on the attitude of "getting them out of their walls" If that was the intent of society then we would not have walls/fences/boundaries of any
sort. A modern farm that raises crops and livestock has no need to go out hunting or foraging, the only reason they leave the farm is to trade/sell excess and for entertainment.

[The_Lich_King]

The "Why Bother" is because this is a progressive from hunter gatherer, to industrialization era. without the initial hunting and gathering then you have no basis to implement any industry.

Posting my opinion on the attitude of "getting them out of their walls" If that was the intent of society then we would not have walls/fences/boundaries of any
sort. A modern farm that raises crops and livestock has no need to go out hunting or foraging, the only reason they leave the farm is to trade/sell excess and for entertainment.

The Goals of this game aren't the goals of society in real life. This isn't meant to emulate life, otherwise we would just live life. This is a video game and is meant to have fun aspects to it like adventuring. Problem is if you don't economically insentivize adventuring then no one will do it, because there is no benefit. I agree with the point that this is a game where ages flip and you progress from stone to iron and part of that is leaving hunter/gatherer way of life behind, but the problem is the stone age and foraging in this game are WAYYYY to short lived. If we really did want to emulate life then the stone age should be 95% of the game and 5% be everything else...... but that's another reason why this is a video game not a life simulation.

At any rate i think the Stone Age and Hunter/Gatherer era needs to last longer. Also as an Anthropology student whom currently is studying stone age archaeology, i have MANY ideas for different stages of the stone age, and ways to make it longer by adding more content and phases within it.

[boreial]

I whole heartily agree the hunting gather phase is much too short, as is the stat and skill gains, the problem behind that is how quickly we learn to use what we discover, IE discover a board and poof you can build a cupboard. or discover a carrot seed and know how to plant, harvest, and improve said crop. IMHO if you want to extend the learning curve then "inventions" such as these should be limited behind stat and/or skill gains. But eh... whatdoIknow

[Fostik]

To be honest, foraging mechanics is to poor to do any pots rebalancing.
Current stat gain mechanics and meta requires tonns of food, spices, and i am not sure that current foraging system will provide some good gameplay.

In other words: when you proposing to nerf something, try to think more that 1 step forward - if there will be no good way to produce lot of foraged items, then how people will raise their stats?

[xzo]

this idea is bad imo

the approach is bad, you want to buff foraging, have and idea to buff foraging, there was that idea about "wild" foragables, not sure how it was but the way i would like it is as follows

1 - wild foragables are better in a way ( extra fep or something )
2 - only wild foragables can be planted in pots
3 - whatever planted in pots have %chance to stay wild and be better / replanted

[The_Lich_King]

I whole heartily agree the hunting gather phase is much too short, as is the stat and skill gains, the problem behind that is how quickly we learn to use what we discover, IE discover a board and poof you can build a cupboard. or discover a carrot seed and know how to plant, harvest, and improve said crop. IMHO if you want to extend the learning curve then "inventions" such as these should be limited behind stat and/or skill gains. But eh... whatdoIknow

Yeah like humans didn't discover that type of housing until the late Neolithic and Early Bronze ages. Prior to that Humans stayed mud housing or mound homes or they would make hide houses using a fallen tree or sometimes even multiple fallen trees as frames to wrap hides around.

It would be cool to have a phase of the game where everyone is living in Hide and Mud housing. We could do this by making a HUGE seperation between lumberjacking and carpentry and add steps in between

EDIT: I still don't think Nerfing pots is a bad idea, but now i truthfully do think the biggest problem with foraging is the era of history that it was most relevant (which also is the largest era of human history) is only a matter of days, if even that in the game. It should be at least weaks before you get to the point of the agricultural revolution.