Please balance "Raw Hide!"

[ChildhoodObesity]

biggest yikes thread of all time

[kmarad]

This magic is too cheap, and allows attacker cast it repeatedly, so you can even escape being on horse. Make it so that raw hide aggroes all horses on you on cast, because caster should pay for such op magic.

Yea something like dismount all close riders and have all horses attacking the caster could be nice

The only change I'd love to see is a shorter range.
You don't need to give people on horse an advantage in combat, but they should have an advantage when it comes to running away. Meaning u shouldn't be able to use raw hide as soon as they pop on your screen.

A shorter range sure, but also allow people to get off their horse while it's startled.

I think the whole point of 'raw hide' is to remove horses from PvP. They haven't balanced PvP for horseback so they're not allowing horses to be used for it.

Then what about kicksleds?

[MagicManICT]

Then what about kicksleds?

Clearly we need a "rawhide" for kicksleds and knarrs.

[Glorthan]

I think the whole point of 'raw hide' is to remove horses from PvP. They haven't balanced PvP for horseback so they're not allowing horses to be used for it.

Then what about kicksleds?

Kicksleds don't scale with quality, and knarrs have counterplay (you can leave your rowboat and go on land), unless you're sitting in the middle of a lake (why?).

Horses are literally whoever has higher horse stats and the most leashed can auto win/escape, unless there is a swimmable river right next door. It's cancer, hence raw hide.
Carry a rope and ctrl-click on new player alarm (auto leashes horse to you), problem solved, balanced pvp.

[kmarad]

Clearly we need a "rawhide" for kicksleds and knarrs.

I disagree, I think big protections should be removed.
I mean with the murder skill you can't even murder anymore. With siege, you can't really siege. Now with boats you can't attack, and anyone can stun you if you are on a horse...

I kind of miss the old days, when you could just bring a sledge hammer, break a pali, loot & burn the place and kill or get spanked by anyone on your way.
This game is becoming farmville-like, next year you'll only be able to pee on your neighboor turnips if you are on their friend list

Horses are literally whoever has higher horse stats and the most leashed can auto win/escape.

But if you are chased by someone with a better horse than yours, you can dismount him - he'll probably do the same - hence the combat will be on foot from then on, which sounds balanced.
I mean, since forever on H&H, it has been whoever has the highest quantity of best quality water that can auto win / escape.
How putting horses in the equation makes it that different ? Replace water q by horse q. Fights will be faster, people on foot can play with cliffs, speed buffs, and dismounting.

If the issue is that you can leash like 5 horses and switch horse when your own is tired, maybe make something so that leashed horses also lose pony power when they are leashed to one that's sprinting.

[SnuggleSnail]

Threads where people that don't pvp try to suggest pvp changes should be insta-locked tbh.

This. If you need to teach somebody the entire game before you can explain to them why their idea is bad, their thread should be in the How Do I section, not C&I.

[Glorthan]

But if you are chased by someone with a better horse than yours, you can dismount him - he'll probably do the same - hence the combat will be on foot from then on, which sounds balanced.
I mean, since forever on H&H, it has been whoever has the highest quantity of best quality water that can auto win / escape.
How putting horses in the equation makes it that different ? Replace water q by horse q. Fights will be faster, people on foot can play with cliffs, speed buffs, and dismounting.

Horses block fleeing players off if it's more than 1v1. Dismount isn't enough.

I agree water quantity being an important factor for escape on land is also bad, but a different issue.

[kmarad]

Threads where people that don't pvp try to suggest pvp changes should be insta-locked tbh.

This. If you need to teach somebody the entire game before you can explain to them why their idea is bad, their thread should be in the How Do I section, not C&I.

A common saying is that if you can't explain something simply, it's probably because that you don't understand it perfectly yourself.
Then for someone abusing bugs, hiding them as much as possible, I find it kind of fun that you are here, judging people that are actually trying to help make the game better balanced.

[MagicManICT]

A common saying is that if you can't explain something simply, it's probably because that you don't understand it perfectly yourself.

It's also a common saying that you can't teach a first grader advanced calculus... at least in math circles.

There's a lot of layers to the knowledge in Haven. I'm somewhere in the middle, and it appears to me that, overall, this is more of a request from "a lack of knowledge of deeper game mechanics." I don't disagree with the premise of the argument, but the solution is much more complex than this thread can possibly cover because the base of the subject, PvP combat, is inherently flawed. Just to note, I don't think anything in this thread would bring more balance to the game. Just the opposite could be true, though, and it make encounters less balanced and less fun for all.

[kmarad]

It's also a common saying that you can't teach a first grader advanced calculus... at least in math circles.

There's a lot of layers to the knowledge in Haven. I'm somewhere in the middle, and it appears to me that, overall, this is more of a request from "a lack of knowledge of deeper game mechanics." I don't disagree with the premise of the argument, but the solution is much more complex than this thread can possibly cover because the base of the subject, PvP combat, is inherently flawed. Just to note, I don't think anything in this thread would bring more balance to the game. Just the opposite could be true, though, and it make encounters less balanced and less fun for all.

Hopefully this is not about math circles.
And I feel you, a game like H&H has some complexity, and you can't just simply change one thing without impacting a lot of stuff connected to it.

But really I'm curious : actually when someone uses "Raw Hide!", every riders around are stunned. I say "stunned", because in much other games that's called like that.
I mean their character is stuck on the horse for multiple seconds, and can't do anything.

Maybe you guys play some dota or games like that, so you may know that "stun" is probably one of the strongest croud control effect.
Now I don't think people have to understand advanced calculus in math circles to realize that using 500 experience to be able to stun unlimited people around self for a long duration is broken.
Especially since it has no cooldown so that you can basically block a full cavalry, alone, for a good while, given you have enough experience.

So yea, there are some noobs, like me, that shouldn't be able to post here.
And then there are the pvp experts - aka manipulating abusers - that just enjoy this staying like this, because it helps quite a lot ruining noobs who think that horses are useful to escape fights (when actually being on a horse will just get them killed more easily).