beekeeper's credo

[Mr_Bober]

If the game needs content or some perk bad enough, it should be baseline.

I disagree. Locking perks behind credos is a great incentive to have people work in groups. This game is clearly designed for cooperation and specialisation, and that's what credos are great for.
Having credos allow you to get something of better quality, in larger quantities, or more safely, is a great reward. If you don't have the credo, you can still get wax, just not as well as people with credo. That's how most credos currently work already.

[MagicManICT]

Locking perks behind credos is a great incentive to have people work in groups.

There is a balance to this. Some things that have been locked behind credos are things that really should be base line or have some other means of unlocking because it has forced players to grind out X credo to be competitive in the game. Some of the other credo unlocks are nice to have this way as it is an RPG, not just a survival or PvP game, so there needs to be some sort of character development beyond just questing for numbers.

[Mr_Bober]

Some things that have been locked behind credos are things that really should be base line or have some other means of unlocking because it has forced players to grind out X credo to be competitive in the game.

I really don't see a difference between forcing players to do a credo, and forcing them to (for example) raise combat stats to do dungeons or hunt trolls. In both cases you have something that you can't do unless you take certain steps. The only difference would be that u can't boost a credo, but u can boost lp and FEP (and cheese animals), which isn't a great argument considering that's just an incentive to using bots.

Some of the other credo unlocks are nice to have this way as it is an RPG, not just a survival or PvP game, so there needs to be some sort of character development beyond just questing for numbers.

That's why I believe credos should be even more important, truly forcing people to specialise and work together, especially if you are trying to stay at the top.

[SnuggleSnail]

mebe forcing people to do anything in a sandbox game is a bad idea.
Player thinks "Hm. I want to raise animals", game replies "hey, if you wanna do that you gotta:

• Pick x herb.
• Eat x forageable food .
• Bring forageable to quest giver.
• Gain x point(s) of exploration/survival.
• Create and gild an artifact of exploration/survival.
• Study a forageable curiosity.
• Catch a small animal
  
  20 times, then
  
• Gain x point(s) of lore/farming/perception.
• Plant x crops.
• Harvest x crops.
• Bring farming product to quest giver.
• Milk a cow/sheep.
• Slaughter animal.
• Study curio.
• Eat baked good
• Create and gild an artifact of farming/perception/lore.
  
  40 times, then
  
• Put an arrow in animal.
• Flay animal
• Study animal part like Beaver Tail/Beaver Teeth/Adder Fang/Swan Feather/Nine-Tails.
• Gain x point(s) of perception/agility.
• Create and gild an artifact for marksmanship/agility.
• Catch critter.
• Eat an Ants/Dried Batwings
• Eat roasted or spitroasted meat x times.
• Score a bull's eye on an archery target (make sure to have at least 7 tiles between you and target)
• Defeat an animal (mostly weak animals)
• Bring animal part to quest giver.
  
  60 times, then
  
• Catch fish.
• Bring fish to quest giver.
• Gain x point(s) of will/intelligence.
• Eat crab roe x times.
• Craft lure.
• Roast fillet of fish.
• Create and gild an artifact of will/intelligence/survival.
• Defeat a swan.
• Eat fish
• Study curio
• Catch crabs
  
  80 times, then
  
• Go see a localized resource
• Study a curiosity x times
• Visit a questgiver
• Bring an item to a questgiver
• Defeat an animal
• Create an artifact for a certain attribute or skill
• Catch a fish x times
• Tame a tameable creature
• Put an arrow in an animal
• Gain x points of an ability
  
  100 times, then
  
• Deliver hide of domestic animal to a questgiver.
• Tether domestic animal to a questgiver. (distant)
• Milk a domestic animal.
• Slay a domestic animal.
• Flay a domestic animal.
• Gain x point(s) of Exploration or Farming.
• Eat spitroasted domestic meat.
• Create an artifact for Charisma, Exploration or Farming.
• Study curiosity (auroch's hair).

120 times, then 420 quests that were 100% unrelated to your original goal later, you can finally do the thing you set out to do."

You hope that the person in your village dedicated to whatever other part of the industry was willing to do a similar grind to do their thing effectively. Inevitably they won't, so you have to half do it for them, and god forbid somebody with an important credo doesn't share their account. Then, you do all the credos you want on your fighter, or whatever other character you need.

Then boom. New world. Do it all again, retard.

Wouldn't it be fucking cool if people in a sandbox game could just do the thing they wanted to do? Like, imagine a world where if I wanted to herd animals I could just, like, tame some fucking animals and fuck about with them instead of this literal wall of shit nobody wants to do.

The only people who like this shit are hermits that aren't really affected by it, and probably wouldn't notice if the rewards didn't even work, or people from small villages that like to pretend they're useful sometimes when they press craft TWO autumn steaks pop out instead of one. Everybody hates it. I don't understand why it's still in the game. Credos bad REEEE

P.S: you can kill trolls or clear dungeons with base stats

[boshaw]

Credos bad REEEE

Daily reminder that when Snail says these things, he's actually merely parading his inability to write a bot that does credo quests for him.

[Mr_Bober]

mebe forcing people to do anything in a sandbox game is a bad idea.
Player thinks "Hm. I want to raise animals", game replies "hey, if you wanna do that you gotta:

You can raise animals without any credo. It's just less efficient, as it should be.

Then, you do all the credos you want on your fighter, or whatever other character you need.

That's your problem if you want to play with multiple accounts/characters. You can't complain something takes too long because you want to play 4 characters at once.

Then boom. New world. Do it all again, retard.

If that's your take, then why play at all? Anything you do now will be lost with a new world. What's the point of raising crops quality or getting the best gear you can, if you're gonna lose it all anyway?

Wouldn't it be fucking cool if people in a sandbox game could just do the thing they wanted to do?

If you want a game like that, go play Gmod. That's what you are describing.
The simple fact that haven has skills and qualities makes it have a progression.

Everybody hates it.

Everybody as in YOU. There wouldn't even be this discussion, or "New credo thread" if everybody hated it as you claim.

P.S: you can kill trolls or clear dungeons with base stats

I'd like to see you do it. Take a new alt, with 10 in all attribute, no abilities, and no gear, and show us.
Because if you need high stats, or high q gear, or multiple alts (or bots), then it's not different from needing a credo.

[bitza]

bruh, nobody is forcing you or anyone else to do credos

[DDDsDD999]

bruh, nobody is forcing you or anyone else to do credos

mebe forcing people to do anything in a sandbox game is a bad idea.
Player thinks "Hm. I want to raise animals", game replies "hey, if you wanna do that you gotta:

You can raise animals without any credo. It's just less efficient, as it should be.

If you want to have irrelevant industry compared to all the other big groups that did the credos, sure. But I think having players divided between competitive people with good stuff to trade (real money/tokens/hats) for, and scrubs that just pay that group so they're not COMPLETELY irrelevant is bad and is partially why RMT is so rampant among all traders

[Mr_Bober]

But I think having players divided between competitive people with good stuff ... and scrubs that just pay that group so they're not COMPLETELY irrelevant is bad

That divide exists because of quality, not because of credos. Large competitive groups (and those using bots) will always be ahead in quality and have much better stuff than anyone else. And so do those who started on day 1 and always played, compared to someone who starts 3 month in, or even later.

You could remove credos completely and still have that same problem.
Less competitive players actually benefit from credos, since they unlock abilities that other players on their same level might not have, and might be willing to trade for.

[DDDsDD999]

But I think having players divided between competitive people with good stuff ... and scrubs that just pay that group so they're not COMPLETELY irrelevant is bad

That divide exists because of quality, not because of credos. Large competitive groups (and those using bots) will always be ahead in quality and have much better stuff than anyone else. And so do those who started on day 1 and always played, compared to someone who starts 3 month in, or even later.

You could remove credos completely and still have that same problem.
Less competitive players actually benefit from credos, since they unlock abilities that other players on their same level might not have, and might be willing to trade for.

If the required effort to get over the divide wasn't so large, more people would likely go into the competitive side of it. But there's a ton of shit required to do it, one of the most notable being credos. Obviously there shouldn't just be no effort to have useful high-quality things, but I think if you want to have something useful, you shouldn't be required to complete a credo (and a bunch of earlier credos you likely don't care about).

I think credos would be a lot better if they were things that just made things easier to do/"nice to haves", but not just be straight quality/speed boosts to industry. Industry boosts like those attached to strider, blacksmith, farmer, miner, and herder are just required if you want to not get left in the dirt a couple months down the line. And the sooner you rush them, the bigger the impact you get.