The first snowball of ideas

[Sevenless]

Consider that now we are early world, so everything is fresh. But what would happen in 6 months? If a new player starts playing he has to walk for days to find a single tree?
That would just ruin the game.

Trees spread and grow naturally. It's very slow, but it does happen. Over the span of months it should noticeably impact things.

[Barbamaus]

Consider that now we are early world, so everything is fresh. But what would happen in 6 months? If a new player starts playing he has to walk for days to find a single tree?
That would just ruin the game.

Trees spread and grow naturally. It's very slow, but it does happen. Over the span of months it should noticeably impact things.

I know they do, but people would also keep chopping them. And if this change was implemented, they would be chopped down at a way higher rate

[FrankMcFuzz]

None of what you're thinking of would happen. Increasing the cost of palisades, especially if the main change is it costs more wood, it would lead only to the following:
- Forests becoming barren landscapes, because people would still want to build palisades and would chop down EVERYTHING.
- Armies of vault-alts made to keep every item you own safe, until you can finish your big wall of China. They already do this, it would just exasperate the problem.

We solved the problem of spam of new characters to help deposit or cutting trees in another topic ... by adding to Wilderness Beacon - new item 'oath of first communion' at 3-5 $.
The fact that all trees are cut down thus remaining desolate places sounds more like human behavior, why hide this aspect.
I do have a friend its base is crowded due to the first tranche of quality trees.

P.S. Sorry about multiple post didn't wanted to prezent everything in a big lump.

Okay. Instead of talking about palisade wood cost for a second, let's have a history lesson about putting gameplay aspects behind paywalls.

Introducing, what I would call, a necessary monetary transaction to play Haven would be flying in the face of lessons I hope have been learned in the past about Haven's monetary systems. At the start of one World (I dunno, 9 or 10?), the devs attempted to introduce paid payment plans, maybe to 'fix' an area of the game that was being exploited or maybe to just make money off their pet project: let's target people playing WAY too much and getting ahead of others. I guess the plan was maybe to dissuade people from no-lifing the game while simultaneously getting rich off the people who do. So now you've got 24 hours of playtime a week, 48 for a paid account and infinite for subscription (I think this was the way it was done. Memory's a bit foggy)

Whatever the reason behind it, (and I genuinely believe the intention came from a good place), introducing a payment plan like this was a terrible idea, with repurcussions that are still being felt today: I mentioned Haven in a steam discussions page on a different game last month and was promptly laughed off the board for playing a 'pay to win' game with a 'terrible payment plan', even though that hasn't been in the game for years and years, now. Many players from Haven's legacy days were scared away when the 'free' game became 'free?', and they've kept their idea of Haven as the from that time it was very briefly pay to play. These ex-players are dangerous anti-advertisements, because they're not here to see that game is better, and probably still telling people the game costs money when it comes up; I've seen it happen on gaming boards across the web.

Introducing payments for core features of gameplay isn't just absurd, it's historically counter-productive. Unless you're a "doomed to repeat it" kinda guy. There's another history lesson about clearcutting to make buckets, but I digress lol.

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay for Haven; I've got a paid account and a few hats, even had a few suscriptions over the years. But people should support jorb and loftar without feeling pressured to do so through predatory feature paywalls. Buy an account and a subscription if you care that much.

[MagicManICT]

At the start of one World (I dunno, 9 or 10?), the devs attempted to introduce paid payment plans, maybe to 'fix' an area of the game that was being exploited or maybe to just make money off their pet project

world 8, and it was 20 hours per week without a sub. It was to encourage players to sub, but it didn't work out as expected. Too many kids without bank cards and from the poorer parts of the world play free games like Haven... at least that's my theory.

And thanks for the reminder of the old bucket grinders. I'll just note that deforestation hasn't really been a problem since curios were introduced world 5. Even worlds 6, 7, and 10 (all of which ran 2 years) didn't have this problem... or rather it was a very localized problem. Past the first few weeks once tree planting starts, nobody really cares about wild trees these days.

Additionally, if natural tree spread isn't quite fast enough, it can be tweaked on the server. There is a balance between getting a forest to take back over an area that has been cleared out and annoying the active players when trees start popping up in the middle of their roads.

[Zampfeo]

Gameplay needs to be considered in order to improve the game, but OP has only argued for realism. I'll play devil's advocate here.

A disproportionate amount of effort is given to the construction of a palisade. This is usually the #1 goal for a freshspawn, both spruce and veteran. It is the only way to go to bed at night and be confident your work will be there for you in the morning because it is at this point where siege mechanics come into play. It has been this way forever, for better or for worse.

There's a couple of annoyances with this: players are rushed into constructing the palisade as a necessity, but unless you spend hours planning your village layout in Google sheets beforehand, there will be something you regret about your palisade layout eventually. You should've placed a corner post there for your inner wall, or you should've spent more time leveling the land, or you wish you chose a better pavement under the palisade, or you should've left a space to build a roundpole gate, etc. Sure, you could build a wrecking ball, but often the effort and risk just isn't worth it. Later on when you've gotten the ability to build brick walls, there is little gameplay benefit because the time for a battering ram to dry remains the same regardless of wall type and it's much too much effort to replace your existing palisade with brick walls anyway.

And the early game implications: Some will probably disagree, but I don't think that it's good gameplay that one could come across a group of fresh spawns and destroy their things with little effort, but as soon as you leave them be for 24hrs, they could have a dry palisade and there's nothing that can be done aside from camping a battering ram for 24 hours. It's bad gameplay for both parties IMO because the freshspawns have to either move away or cross their fingers the raiders slip up for 24 hours and it's bad for the raiders because they have to visit them every day at the same time before they manage to construct a dry palisade.

OP is right that every village, including its farms, being behind a palisade is unrealistic, for whatever that's worth. I don't think making palisades cost more is going to change anything other than make hermit lives' harder.

So what could be improved? I don't have any specific ideas, but buffing roundpole, stone fences, and brick walls would be a start so palisades aren't the only option. That does not mean make them harder to handbash; the value of palisades comes from the siege timer. Maybe they could work on a 2 hour, 10 hour, 16 hour, 24 hour timer respectively. That way, a stone fence is adequate for someone who just needs something to protect them while they're asleep or at work. Each with a 24 hour drying time of course to prevent troll walls(also, reworking sieging to not be such a PITA, but that's beyond this scope). I also think each type of fence should have the ability to be upgraded. That way you could swap your palisade with a brickwall, paying the same costs, but not needing to destroy your entire palisade beforehand