sorry i missclicked

[Archiplex]

Remove travel weariness cost for travelling to home dock, it's pointless.

Edit: I MEAN MAKE IT LIKE TRAVELLING TO HEARTH FIRE OF COURSE

Hey, delet this. Just use the alt.

This won't end well for any of us

has already been spoken publically about to jorb dw, he's aware

[jordancoles]

Remove travel weariness cost for travelling to home dock, it's pointless.

Edit: I MEAN MAKE IT LIKE TRAVELLING TO HEARTH FIRE OF COURSE

Hey, delet this. Just use the alt.

This won't end well for any of us

has already been spoken publically about to jorb dw, he's aware

Reeeeeeeeee

[Nightdawg]

Hey, delet this. Just use the alt.

This won't end well for any of us

I can tell you're not 100% serious about what you said here, but still, why do most of you guys prefer not to have the game improved when it comes to those very stupid things?
It feels like most of the older players just prefer having the retarded mechanics rather than suggesting to get them fixed.
Does jorb have a reputation for making stuff worse or do you simply not want this game to be better? Not talking about you specifically obviously, just veterans in general.

[Flameturtle]

Hey, delet this. Just use the alt.

This won't end well for any of us

I can tell you're not 100% serious about what you said here, but still, why do most of you guys prefer not to have the game improved when it comes to those very stupid things?
It feels like most of the older players just prefer having the retarded mechanics rather than suggesting to get them fixed.
Does jorb have a reputation for making stuff worse or do you simply not want this game to be better? Not talking about you specifically obviously, just veterans in general.

Generally they make really good updates, its just the bad ones *cough*(glass)*cough* hit so much harder for people and that tend to grow as time goes on.

[Archiplex]

Hey, delet this. Just use the alt.

This won't end well for any of us

It feels like most of the older players just prefer having the retarded mechanics rather than suggesting to get them fixed.

it's mostly this, especially when it gives them an advantage over others despite how stupid said advantage might be, but also a little bit of

Does jorb have a reputation for making stuff worse

i mean, it's MOSTLY the former, but yes sometimes some things are "fixed" in a way that makes it worse; admittedly though it doesn't help that most people don't actually want to talk about design and updating things and instead resort to crying and making absurd/disingenuous arguments (see: thread about wounds)

[SnuggleSnail]

Jorb and Loftar often develop with aesthetics and theoretical best case player behavior in mind far more than real mechanics & gameplay. They will nearly 100% of the time choose a "pretty" solution to a problem that doesn't actually work in the real game over existing mechanics that work well enough. Rose Gold farming update is the best example of this in my mind. Made farming x10 worse, botting x10 more powerful, all in the name of stopping farming bots, and they absolutely refuse to revert it. It works ina very elegant way if players use it exactly as intended, and we only think about best cases, though.

They will often take something that maybe has a minor issue, but overall makes the game much better than any proposed alternative, and break it entirely to fix that minor issue, then never iterate on it again to get its old functionality back. They often refuse to accept that the base concept of a mechanic REQUIRES some compromise / bad aspects for the good aspects to exist. That's why siege/realms/combat have been iterated on or scrapped like 10 times.

Dock TW fits in this category really well, I feel.

Jorbtar is going to look at this and be like:
Jorb: "Ye, it is pretty ugly that people are using alts to teleport back to their dock."
Loftar: "Ah, but we added travel weariness to docks for a reason."
Jorb: "Right you are. I really don't like that people are using alts to port their knarrs back, though. How do we stop that?"
Loftar: "Why don't we just not let them teleport back if their will isn't high enough to travel that distance. Then they can't use fresh alts to dock"

I don't mean to discount Jorbtar's willingness to take feedback. They're a lot better at accepting criticism than people give them credit for, especially if there's like a 10 page thread of people unanimously agreeing - but I can see why people would unironically just not want this to be brought up. It's, like, a 50/50 if they make a good choice or a bad choice. The good choice makes the game SLIGHTLY more enjoyable, and the bad choice makes the game WAY worse. That isn't a good gamble.

[Zampfeo]

especially if there's like a 10 page thread of people unanimously agreeing

I don't have anything to add other than my contribution to this inevitable 10 page thread of unanimous agreement. +1

[The_Lich_King]

What i would like to see, is for it to cost absolutely no travel weariness to dock with your boat, a certain distance out from your dock. maybe even a sizeable distance out from your dock but for travel weariness cost to quite substantially and exponentially increase after you are outside that zone.

The reason? I hate alt porting and alting in general and this would remove at least 1 reason to alt, as the biggest issue with dock porting right now is that even minor trips cost MASSIVE amounts of weariness which is why everyone just alts, but i don't want it to only cost 1 tick of weariness over massive distances because then thingwalls would become kind of pointless since everything would be easily accessible via Snekkja travel.

Alternatively what we could do is encourage long distance travel by Snekkja and short distance travel by thingwall, by implementing a set rate of travel weariness regardless of distance for docking, say like.... 10 Travel Weariness. Taking a Thingwall (in my experience) usually costs 2 to 4 Travel weariness meaning going a short distance or only taking one Thingwall would be cheaper than Snekkja travel but over a long distance you would save massively by using a Snekkja

(as i type this out i really like the latter idea more than the former simply because boats should probably be used for greater distance travel)

[VDZ]

Does jorb have a reputation for making stuff worse or do you simply not want this game to be better? Not talking about you specifically obviously, just veterans in general.

I'm personally in favor of just reporting everything and hoping for the best, but yes, this still happens sometimes. Recently, people were complaining swamps were too easy to forage and lacked danger. As a result, we got malaria plus being able to use dugouts in swamps (because that was also suggested and it sounded cool). The practical result is that my main never ever enters swamps anymore and I instead have a swamp alt which can now forage with greater ease than ever before (the dugout is like having an unlimited horse anywhere at any time and can be created in 20 minutes).

Jorb and Loftar often develop with aesthetics and theoretical best case player behavior in mind far more than real mechanics & gameplay. They will nearly 100% of the time choose a "pretty" solution to a problem that doesn't actually work in the real game over existing mechanics that work well enough. Rose Gold farming update is the best example of this in my mind. Made farming x10 worse, botting x10 more powerful, all in the name of stopping farming bots, and they absolutely refuse to revert it. It works ina very elegant way if players use it exactly as intended, and we only think about best cases, though.

Snail, you are full of shit, not in the Shubla sense of clearly trolling but in having been caught before pretending to make genuine good faith arguments in order to make mechanics more exploitable or give bots an advantage (e.g. when you argued you should be able to Thingwall travel when Red-Handed because you get the debuff in self-defense...until you got called out that mere self-defense should never give you that and you are proactively traveling long distances to gank people far away from home). (Honestly, with your expertise you could provide many valuable insights if it just weren't for the fact you're arguing in bad faith while hiding your true intentions half of the time.

As such, I can only assume this general statement about an update that really helped non-botters is just an attempt to put more power back in the hands of botters. How in the world would removing the requirement for insta-replanting for maximum efficiency benefit botters, let alone 'make farming 10x worse' in a non-botting situation? All it did is remove the extra delay farmers had to deal with if they didn't replant their crops the very moment they were ready to harvest (a task for more doable for bots than for actual players). If you ask me, it was the second best update to farming in the history of the game, with only the change that you can designate an area instead of having to go tile-by-tile being even better.

I don't mean to discount Jorbtar's willingness to take feedback. They're a lot better at accepting criticism than people give them credit for, especially if there's like a 10 page thread of people unanimously agreeing

This is not my experience (see also: midges still being in the game and there still being nothing you can do about them). From what I can tell, quantity of disagreeing posts is not or barely a factor and devs will make a change if they see merit in the arguments presented, even if only one poster argued for it. (Which is generally the better way of handling things - democracy is a poor way to design a game - even though I sometimes wish they'd be less stubborn about certain things.)

What i would like to see, is for it to cost absolutely no travel weariness to dock with your boat, a certain distance out from your dock. maybe even a sizeable distance out from your dock but for travel weariness cost to quite substantially and exponentially increase after you are outside that zone.

The reason? I hate alt porting and alting in general and this would remove at least 1 reason to alt, as the biggest issue with dock porting right now is that even minor trips cost MASSIVE amounts of weariness which is why everyone just alts, but i don't want it to only cost 1 tick of weariness over massive distances because then thingwalls would become kind of pointless since everything would be easily accessible via Snekkja travel.

So how would this solve the issue of alt porting adding tedium and undermining the TW cost? All it would do is shift the problem by removing it in very specific situations while making it even more mandatory in others.

Thingwall travel is already very different from Snekkja travel. The former gets you to your destination near-instantly, but allows for very limited cargo and at most you can travel across water at boat-speed. The latter requires set-up time (you need to travel to your destination first) but allows for a massive amount of cargo and fast travel over water (but at the same time you are limited by the water - every time you want to travel over land you need to build a road which takes ages). There is no need to further differentiate them.

[The_Lich_King]

So how would this solve the issue of alt porting adding tedium and undermining the TW cost? All it would do is shift the problem by removing it in very specific situations while making it even more mandatory in others.

Thingwall travel is already very different from Snekkja travel. The former gets you to your destination near-instantly, but allows for very limited cargo and at most you can travel across water at boat-speed. The latter requires set-up time (you need to travel to your destination first) but allows for a massive amount of cargo and fast travel over water (but at the same time you are limited by the water - every time you want to travel over land you need to build a road which takes ages). There is no need to further differentiate them.

It might not solve the issue, but it would cut back on alting simply because the main reason people alt is they rely on Snekkja's for minor resource trips and have no alternative but to alt due to how insane travel weariness is over even small distances. It might just be bad intuition on my part but if you could go for resource trips without having to worry about racking up stupid amounts of travel weariness then there wouldn't be an insentive to alt, since it wouldn't provide any benefit. Some might alt for large journeys but i REALLY feel like you shouldn't be able to warp between continents without any consequence.

Another solution i had that i didn't mention because i feel it would be utterly hated, is to make it so docking costs 0 travel weariness regardless of distance, but the distance you can port is capped by your will.