satiations bad because many foods

[Sevenless]

My attempt at summary? Lemme know where I'm wrong on this one.

1) Satiations make tryharding suck because making 20 bazillion recipes is annoying.
2) Each new food addition that has powerfood potential (lots of variable ingredients that have the potential to stack multiplicatively + slots for power ingredients like mushrooms/meat/leaves) has the potential to severely redistribute the balance of the food game.
3) With 2 in mind, food seems to be added (from a stat point of view) haphazardly. Frustrating from a point of view of wanting a balanced game.

#1 seems kinda like the intention (needing to make a lot of recipes). But it's countered by the existence of power ingredients like whales.
#3 ... I'm really not sure how well any powerfood can be predicted. Packed Pouch having a pretty nice Int2 recipe surprised me at least. Also being unfortunately blunt, I'm not sure jorb or loftar understand food minmaxing in this system. I've had several discussions with jorb about why eating in the early hours/overeating in the early days of the game is actively harmful to your character growth and they've just disagreed with me. Admittedly this was a while ago, but the recent discussion about hunger-less energy food kinda reinforces that imo.

[VDZ]

What we can say pretty much for sure is that the current trajectory will result in a greater disparity between average fighters and the top grinders

Except for one aspect of PvP, which you're very well aware of:

• For Melee and Unarmed combat, fighters within a factor 2 of eachother in relevant stats are for all intents and purposes considered to be exact equals.
• The gains from Melee and Unarmed combat beyond the factor 2 range increase more steeply than before to compensate somewhat, using a cube root instead of a fourth root as was historically the case.
• The intention behind this change is to reduce the reliance on stats in combat significantly, while still maintaing a decent incentive to increase stats.

Due to the diminishing returns from increasing stats combined with the increased difficulty of increasing stats when they're already high, it's much easier to raise your stats from e.g. 100 to 150 than it is to raise them from 250 to 300. As such, the higher the average player's stats are, the harder it is for stronger players to exceed the 'factor 2'; the more options players get to raise stats, the less advantage players with high stats will have. If players currently at 100 stats get to 150 stats, and players at 250 stats get to 350 stats (twice the gain, and several times the cost!), they are still closer in stats combat-wise. More viable food = a more level playing field.

A lot of your points are really bad, but I'm not arguing in favor or against pretty much anything you're talking about. All I want is food, the thing a majority of a lot of people's play-time revolves around, to be made with gameplay in mind not LARP and RNG stat application.

I'm sure you only have the average player's best interests at heart. Definitely.

[DDDsDD999]

What we can say pretty much for sure is that the current trajectory will result in a greater disparity between average fighters and the top grinders

Except for one aspect of PvP, which you're very well aware of:

• For Melee and Unarmed combat, fighters within a factor 2 of eachother in relevant stats are for all intents and purposes considered to be exact equals.
• The gains from Melee and Unarmed combat beyond the factor 2 range increase more steeply than before to compensate somewhat, using a cube root instead of a fourth root as was historically the case.
• The intention behind this change is to reduce the reliance on stats in combat significantly, while still maintaing a decent incentive to increase stats.

Due to the diminishing returns from increasing stats combined with the increased difficulty of increasing stats when they're already high, it's much easier to raise your stats from e.g. 100 to 150 than it is to raise them from 250 to 300. As such, the higher the average player's stats are, the harder it is for stronger players to exceed the 'factor 2'; the more options players get to raise stats, the less advantage players with high stats will have. If players currently at 100 stats get to 150 stats, and players at 250 stats get to 350 stats (twice the gain, and several times the cost!), they are still closer in stats combat-wise. More viable food = a more level playing field.

Wow you have no idea what you're talking about.

[jordancoles]

What % do you consider "satiated" for the day?

[jordancoles]

What we can say pretty much for sure is that the current trajectory will result in a greater disparity between average fighters and the top grinders

Except for one aspect of PvP, which you're very well aware of:

• For Melee and Unarmed combat, fighters within a factor 2 of eachother in relevant stats are for all intents and purposes considered to be exact equals.
• The gains from Melee and Unarmed combat beyond the factor 2 range increase more steeply than before to compensate somewhat, using a cube root instead of a fourth root as was historically the case.
• The intention behind this change is to reduce the reliance on stats in combat significantly, while still maintaing a decent incentive to increase stats.

Due to the diminishing returns from increasing stats combined with the increased difficulty of increasing stats when they're already high, it's much easier to raise your stats from e.g. 100 to 150 than it is to raise them from 250 to 300. As such, the higher the average player's stats are, the harder it is for stronger players to exceed the 'factor 2'; the more options players get to raise stats, the less advantage players with high stats will have. If players currently at 100 stats get to 150 stats, and players at 250 stats get to 350 stats (twice the gain, and several times the cost!), they are still closer in stats combat-wise. More viable food = a more level playing field.

Wow you have no idea what you're talking about.

UA/MC has nothing to do with having 1000+ hp, 3x's the armor class/weapon damage of your opponent and AGI/STR to the moon. The scaling works for UA/MC, but that only goes so far. If they overshadow you in literally everything else it really doesn't matter that much.

[DDDsDD999]

What % do you consider "satiated" for the day?

Varies wildy depending on what you're eating and your stats. Goal is pretty much to get a FEP per each x number of foods. Eating once a day is also not enough, twice a day is basically the minimum to have decent stats, but if you're tryharding you want to eat every like 4 hours that you can, towing the satiation line as much as you can.

[jordancoles]

What % do you consider "satiated" for the day?

Varies wildy depending on what you're eating and your stats. Goal is pretty much to get a FEP per each x number of foods. Eating once a day is also not enough, twice a day is basically the minimum to have decent stats, but if you're tryharding you want to eat every like 4 hours that you can, towing the satiation line as much as you can.

At this point idk if I dislike the hunger system or the satiation system more. I know that we probably shouldn't have both though.

[VDZ]

Except for one aspect of PvP, which you're very well aware of:

• For Melee and Unarmed combat, fighters within a factor 2 of eachother in relevant stats are for all intents and purposes considered to be exact equals.
• The gains from Melee and Unarmed combat beyond the factor 2 range increase more steeply than before to compensate somewhat, using a cube root instead of a fourth root as was historically the case.
• The intention behind this change is to reduce the reliance on stats in combat significantly, while still maintaing a decent incentive to increase stats.

Due to the diminishing returns from increasing stats combined with the increased difficulty of increasing stats when they're already high, it's much easier to raise your stats from e.g. 100 to 150 than it is to raise them from 250 to 300. As such, the higher the average player's stats are, the harder it is for stronger players to exceed the 'factor 2'; the more options players get to raise stats, the less advantage players with high stats will have. If players currently at 100 stats get to 150 stats, and players at 250 stats get to 350 stats (twice the gain, and several times the cost!), they are still closer in stats combat-wise. More viable food = a more level playing field.

Wow you have no idea what you're talking about.

UA/MC has nothing to do with having 1000+ hp, 3x's the armor class/weapon damage of your opponent and AGI/STR to the moon. The scaling works for UA/MC, but that only goes so far. If they overshadow you in literally everything else it really doesn't matter that much.

Huh? I thought AGI was affected as well. If it isn't, the scaling is pretty much pointless as someone with significantly more AGI will wreck you even if you're equal in other stats.

[The_Lich_King]

Spamming a variety of foods is better than spamming the same food a million times, like existed prior to the Satiation system.

[Zampfeo]

I just want to eat 3 of each pit baked and roasted foods with relevant stats every day for a week. Then, I just want to eat 3 of each smoked sausage with relevant stats every day for a month. Then, I just want to eat 3 of each cheeses and autumn steaks everyday for the rest of the world. Clear and concise food tiers is a good thing for gameplay. All these new foods that get put into some random number generator is a pain in the ass (tedious) to keep track of.

I don't expect this critique to get much traction, though, because balance hasn't really ever been a concern in this game.