Revert the buff to sword armor penetration

[SnuggleSnail]

I think there were some pretty valid arguments for hirdman's swords being as good as B12s, and definitely better on newer people because of how braindead it is. A bad player with a B12 was always worse than a bad player with a sword. Not sure I would agree swords used to be as good as B12s, but they were close enough that several players were using them effectively in high end PVP. the ARP buff increased its damage by 250%, because swords do exclusively chip damage - not hits over AC.


Taking something that's viable and buffing it by 250% seems self-evidently retarded, tbh. Not to mention B12 gameplay is the only one that's actually skill based and fun. The nematodes who constantly talk about only stats mattering will be a lot closer to correct next world when everybody runs swords

[telum12]

Maybe now after buffs they will deal at lest some more damage.

tl;dr: "I'm not playing and haven't tested it but lgtm"

(I've no stake here tbh I just think that's a dumb take)

Also inb4 no changes until 1 month into w14 when everyone is mc :yoj:

[Nightdawg]

But using quick barrage can fuel bloodlust/combat med, right?

Wouldn't "mindlessly spamming QB+Sting" only work if you're just outnumbering the enemy and they don't have coins?

I guess 250% defense is huge, but cleaving on 100/100 with a hirdsman did like 200 damage, while a b12 did like 1200 lmao. Not saying it should or shouldn't stay like this, but before this swords were just bad, so reverting it would be worse than just an adjustement.

[noindyfikator]

It's almost impossible to stick to someone and QB him endlessly. I am not sure about what "QB spamming" tactic they write. You do 3-4 QB and target is unreachable. Don't even mention that QB opens for almost 0 and fills bloodlust/combat med. Also valhalla is the worst place to test such things.

[SnuggleSnail]

You retards realize with current numbers on ARP hits hirdsman only does like 10% less than pre-nerf spears, right? Do you not remember intentionally using spears over B12s? Except you get the best maneuver in the game using swords. You don't even need to play test it to know it's retardedly OP, because we've had a weaker version of the same thing that was already retardedly OP. You can't even opk cleave somebody with perfect timing out of a sting CD if they have agi advantage. There's literally no counter-play to swords outside of having more stats, more friends, or your enemy being retarded enough to let 5 people hit them at once.

IMO, non-B12 combat isn't even fun ignoring relative power levels. Chip based decks cause autistic quantities of small wounds. Not being able to 1tap people who make big mistakes makes fighting larger groups less realistic. Shield up tank mode is honestly not fun at all, it's worse than oak stance to attack into but with no downside. Chip decks mean even with murderous rage no fighter will ever die, even to the point it's probably safe to DC for 10 minutes if the enemy knows your exact HHP. Everything about it is bad.

Also, Jorbtar can't even balance bows. Nobody should be asking for asymmetrical class based PVP. Even giant companies like riot that have in-house testers, entire branches dedicated player feedback, and constant hotfixes/patches changing the third decimal of some minor stat still always have OP/garbage characters. 2 man dev team with no in house testers, who aren't even good enough at PVP to differentiate whose opinions they should listen to ARE NOT going to make multiple balanced classes. The best outcome here is that everybody be equal. Equal using B12s.

[wonder-ass]

i kinda wanna see this meta next world but also dont because it works better with a bigger group.

[noindyfikator]

Valhalla test:

IN A NUTSHELL
Cleave
100 opening B12 - 1020 SHP, Hirdsman - 655 SHP
70 opening B12 - 257 SHP, Hirdsman - 134 SHP
50 opening B12 - 46 SHP, Hirsman - 39 SHP
40 opening B12 - 26 HSP, Hirdsman - 25 SHP

Big boys will still use B12 and do KO plays, small boys will be able to do smth more than just walk around.

Defender:
Armor deflect - 237
Armor soak - 242



Cleave at 99 opening with B12 and Hirdsman sword

Attacker (1000 strength):

B12 dealt 1020 SHP damage to opponent



Hirdsman dealt 655 SHP damage to opponent



Cleave at 70 opening with B12 and Hirdsman sword

B12 dealt 257 SHP damage to opponent


Hirdsman dealt 134 SHP damage to opponent


IMO Swords still sux, but at least now they deal more than 0 dmg.

[SnuggleSnail]

XD you're a fucking retard nonek. How are you going to try and invalidate somebody's opinion on swords because they were bad before a several hundred percent damage buff, then acts like only 70/100 cleaves matter. How many times have you cleaved a relevant fighter at 100? I bet actually zero. Also the AC you're using for 1k strength is obscenely low, which favors b12.

[noindyfikator]

Also the AC you're using for 1k strength is obscenely low

It's exactly the same armor stats and weapon ql our average figther had when we stopped playing for average of 1k str.

I did more tests, but results were similar. Swords sux but less than before buff.
You trashtalk in every post without providing any tests or real numbers, just screaming 250% buff !!oenene!1

[tadeo]

Like tests showed B12 is still better than sword. Why debuff swords if only pvp serious players will use only B12 just like it used to be.