Accept Current Combat

[VDZ]

If you mean the kind where you aren't greatly outstatted and/or getting ganked 3v1, then no. >95% of player's haven't. But the majority have at least been on the receiving end of the 'endless chase' version, so that's a part where most players would benefit from an improvement.

If we're speaking of "endless chase" it's only the factionbois who experience it because both sides are actually trying to fight, but fighting head on with no movement would be highly disadvantageous. Thus one side chases and one escapes, then it switches when they try to engage, and so on, and so on. You alone trying to run away isn't the phenomenon you're talking about. Also if you can't run away then either you're doing something wrong or you're KOd already.

Of course, I'm not saying the "endless chase" is a bad thing. It separates the shitty fighters from the good fighters. Don't try to influence the combat if you aren't even fighting.

You're talking like it's completely unrelated, but the same mechanics result in the situation where victims can keep fleeing from gankers until either they reach their base or their water runs out. It's just less endless because non-PvPers don't carry absurd amounts of water.

[TwentyThree]

Accept current combat system as the last iteration

.... The forums are blissfully silent about combat compared to previous systems. ....

I think why people fight is more important.

Silence because there are two groups of thought about the combat system and neither is going to alter the opinion of the other; one group says the system is clunky and non-intuitive, the other deems it simple and effective. If anyone devises a system that will satisfy both groups I'm sure the devs would love them.

As to why people fight (in the game), only two reasons - hunting or mindless violence against other players.

Or good old fashioned retaliation.

[DonVelD]

You're talking like it's completely unrelated, but the same mechanics result in the situation where victims can keep fleeing from gankers until either they reach their base or their water runs out. It's just less endless because non-PvPers don't carry absurd amounts of water.

Also if you can't run away then either you're doing something wrong or you're KOd already.

Get some experience

[Clemins]

You're talking like it's completely unrelated, but the same mechanics result in the situation where victims can keep fleeing from gankers until either they reach their base or their water runs out. It's just less endless because non-PvPers don't carry absurd amounts of water.

Oh hey look, it's a solution to the presented problem! Carry more water!

Changing how the game works because you(anyone this applies to) don't understand and choose not to understand it doesn't mean it's broken or needs to be changed. In these cases, I'd suggest it's a safe bet to assume that the hardcore 5% of the player base knows what they're talking about when they say any of these proposed combat changes are bad. This is what DonVelD is trying to say, the combat is in its best iteration both in face to face fighting AND running terms. Trust me, it's very hard to catch someone who knows how to run away. Do yourself a favor and take the time to truly learn how all this works.

Guides:
PVP, PVE, ETC: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=72160&start=0
Brief rant on running: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=72398

[VDZ]

Guides:
PVP, PVE, ETC: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=72160&start=0
Brief rant on running: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=72398

The only evidence of running away being totally possible without lucking into a random dugout or running for 20+ minutes is a video of Nightdawg running to his base which is within 1.5 minutes walking distance, while actually slightly losing distance from his attackers rather than gaining it. (In fact, he got attacked for a while until his attacker slowed to a crawl because he wasn't drinking any water...but any decent runner can at least get enough distance to not be in attack range constantly even with a better chaser.)





Even I can do better than that, and the PvP guide tells me nothing new (other than the 'chaser bonus' which I never noticed because it's so minor). The problem with escaping isn't maintaining the distance, which I can do endlessly as long as I have water and don't run into a dead end. The problem is getting away when you're nowhere near your base (or due to terrain can't get back to it, e.g. you need to cross a river and they have a snekkja). Unless either side is retarded it just turns into a 'who has more water and patience' contest.

You're talking like it's completely unrelated, but the same mechanics result in the situation where victims can keep fleeing from gankers until either they reach their base or their water runs out. It's just less endless because non-PvPers don't carry absurd amounts of water.

Oh hey look, it's a solution to the presented problem! Carry more water!

How does carrying enough water to keep it up fix the problem that "PvP" in a ganking encounter consists of almost nothing but running for 20+ minutes straight?

Trust me, it's very hard to catch someone who knows how to run away.

This is certainly true. What is also true is that it's very hard to get enough distance from someone who knows how to chase to hearth home. The combination of these two results in a chase that takes fucking ages. My problem isn't chasers catching up to me (I take chip damage at most during the chase) - it's gaining enough distance to break aggro for long enough to hearth home. The only chases where I actually take any significant amount of damage during the chase is those that aren't on foot (notably Snekkja chases are unwinnable with lower quality so I just head to shore immediately, and kicksleds don't have all of the usual runner advantages so the chaser can just take the faster route whenever you make a turn).

[Clemins]

The only evidence of running away being totally possible without lucking into a random dugout or running for 20+ minutes is a video of Nightdawg running to his base which is within 1.5 minutes walking distance, while actually slightly losing distance from his attackers rather than gaining it. (In fact, he got attacked for a while until his attacker slowed to a crawl because he wasn't drinking any water...but any decent runner can at least get enough distance to not be in attack range constantly even with a better chaser.)

Yes, Nightdawg so happened to be pretty close to his base in this particular instance and had a safe-pali built, but you are literally taking evidence from someone who knows how to run away in a fight. Using this as a "see, he only got away because he was close to his base" standpoint is pretty stupid. Show me a video of a hermit doing the same thing and then maybe that argument might have a sliver of a foundation.

Even I can do better than that

Since we are having this conversation, I HIGHLY doubt that my dude...

and the PvP guide tells me nothing new (other than the 'chaser bonus' which I never noticed because it's so minor). The problem with escaping isn't maintaining the distance, which I can do endlessly as long as I have water and don't run into a dead end. The problem is getting away when you're nowhere near your base (or due to terrain can't get back to it, e.g. you need to cross a river and they have a snekkja). Unless either side is retarded it just turns into a 'who has more water and patience' contest.

So tell me, is there a problem with running if you are able to maintain distance from your attacker? Or do you just have the attention span of a goldfish and cant stand doing something for 20+ minutes? Preparing enough water to run away is literally one of the easiest things you could possibly do. And before you say, "wElL i CaRrY tOoLs So I dOn'T hAvE rOoM"

This is my belt, this is how much water I carry. Yes, it's a troll belt, it's late in the world, semantics. But I have every essential tool on it AND I PVP, chase, and run all the time. Even the basic 6 slot belt still has 3 slots for water if you carry a stone axe, saw, and pick or whatever. I ran with a silk belt for 80% of the world just fine, and getting one is pretty easy, I digress.
There are scenarios where you are fucked no matter what, like in your example with the snekkja+river. But that's just the way the news goes, every encounter isn't going to be fair. If your parents raised you to believe that the worlds always fair then I'm sorry I had to be the one to break it to you, but its not. Look, I understand this feature of the game isn't your idea of fun, but I iterate, it doesn't mean it's broken or needs to be changed. But since you clearly need some further explanation on how to run, I might write up something more detailed in the future so I can just paste it whenever this smooth brain shit pops up again.

How does carrying enough water to keep it up fix the problem that "PvP" in a ganking encounter consists of almost nothing but running for 20+ minutes straight?

This is not a "Problem". If I need to explain this then you need to go see a Psychiatrist.

Trust me, it's very hard to catch someone who knows how to run away.

This is certainly true. What is also true is that it's very hard to get enough distance from someone who knows how to chase to hearth home. The combination of these two results in a chase that takes fucking ages. My problem isn't chasers catching up to me (I take chip damage at most during the chase) - it's gaining enough distance to break aggro for long enough to hearth home. The only chases where I actually take any significant amount of damage during the chase is those that aren't on foot (notably Snekkja chases are unwinnable with lower quality so I just head to shore immediately, and kicksleds don't have all of the usual runner advantages so the chaser can just take the faster route whenever you make a turn).

Anyone equal to or better than me at running gets away 85%-90% of the time. It might not seem obvious to someone who isn't used to running, but haven favors people running away more than you seem to know. Speedboosts always cross the person running away first, you see animals and bunnies first, and the game automatically drops aggro at a certain point allowing you to start to hearth behind a log or rock. I mean it when I say, practice, weather your attention spawn allows it or not. (I assume) you've been playing long enough to have no real excuse other than pure stubbornness and unwillingness to learn and practice. I know you know all the little things you need to do to run, I've seen you mention almost all of them at one point. So until then,
Skill issue.

[MightySheep]

I think haven combat is fine, I agree with just accepting it and rebalancing skills etc so you might have more variety of usable moves. Imagine if there was really rare moves you can only unlock from dungeon bosses.

The chase in this game is in a good place tbh. If you could catch people easily then everyone is just automatically dead when they get ganked, is that fun?

With the current system, all the odds are in favor of the person running away and its skill based with a bit of RNG on the speed boosts. I got chased for like an hour last week and literally the only reason I didnt get away was because I started on an small island with no escape routes, I had no bunny slippers, I didnt have any of the that entire region mapped, I had red handed, they out numbered me 4:1 and I quit ages ago so I dont have any boats or allies or safe place to run to. Despite all that and being massively outstatted I was seconds away from escaping but red handed ran out 10 seconds too late and the chase only ended because I started with no food and I began to starve.

The ideal system is one where players arent automatically dead when some gankers roll up but also have to work hard to survive and use skill. Which is what we have. For the people who complain about the current system, they never seem to say what they would prefer as an alternative.

[TwentyThree]

I think haven combat is fine, I agree with just accepting it and rebalancing skills etc so you might have more variety of usable moves. Imagine if there was really rare moves you can only unlock from dungeon bosses.

The chase in this game is in a good place tbh. If you could catch people easily then everyone is just automatically dead when they get ganked, is that fun?

With the current system, all the odds are in favor of the person running away and its skill based with a bit of RNG on the speed boosts. I got chased for like an hour last week and literally the only reason I didnt get away was because I started on an small island with no escape routes, I had no bunny slippers, I didnt have any of the that entire region mapped, I had red handed, they out numbered me 4:1 and I quit ages ago so I dont have any boats or allies or safe place to run to. Despite all that and being massively outstatted I was seconds away from escaping but red handed ran out 10 seconds too late and the chase only ended because I started with no food and I began to starve.

The ideal system is one where players arent automatically dead when some gankers roll up but also have to work hard to survive and use skill. Which is what we have. For the people who complain about the current system, they never seem to say what they would prefer as an alternative.

That sounds like it would be a really entertaining thing to watch, even with the main character getting shanked at the end. Better to experience it, even with the despair at the end.

[SnuggleSnail]

@ VDZ do you wanna login for 10 minutes and chase me

[VDZ]

If you could catch people easily then everyone is just automatically dead when they get ganked, is that fun?

The ideal system is one where players arent automatically dead when some gankers roll up but also have to work hard to survive and use skill.

I really don't get this weird insistence I keep seeing that getting KOed leads to death with any regularity (often implied to be frequent or even always). I've been ganked enough times in Hafen but I haven't died to PvP even once (other than one instance near the Altar of Ruin at the end of World 8, where I got completely gangbanged on a low-statted character by a group of probably top-tier characters, and I wasn't even trying to survive, I just wanted to get close to the altar). The worst I ever get from getting KOed is a Wretched Gore which are admittedly a bitch to heal but even those I usually don't get. The wounds from getting ganked aren't that bad, the only part that sucks is losing all of your gear.

Are you guys all constantly playing at 30% HHP or something?