Fix the Hunting Problem.

[Luno]

I do like the idea of animals using restoration moves when not in melee but it has no impact on bow users who will still be killing board and bears with 30 MM while suffering no risk to themselves. I want to make hunting more dangerous.

More reasons to use bow? pog?

[Reiber]

the problem isnt hunting being cheesable. but that its pretty much required.
people would spend almost their entire first week purely pescitarian, or vegetarian,

the combat being inaccessible, and cryptic is one thing, but people get intoo a tussle with a fox. and end up with 3 nasty lacerations, making them unable to take on another fox, in the next 2 months, unless they stack permanent wounds on themself.

damn, i got compleatly decked, by bears, with 200 in stats, and metal gear, just because it outran my horse on sprint. and it kept defending and i was unable to deal the last 20 damage through armour.

.
every time they made changes to hunting, to reduce cheese, was just the cheese becoming more cryptic and specific, and a large part of the playerbase being unable to access vital resources.

remember when animals fleeing because they cant find a path was introduced?
some sweaters, figured out the reaggro thing in the first few minutes, while the rest was compleatly cut off from bear cause they would sprint away at lightspeed if you fought them normally.
same for animal armor, projectiles, and cuttingtool hardcaps,

ultimately every change that tried to force people to hunt normaly, just made hunting nomally less desirable. and cheese more necessary

[The_Lich_King]

the problem isnt hunting being cheesable. but that its pretty much required.
people would spend almost their entire first week purely pescitarian, or vegetarian,

the combat being inaccessible, and cryptic is one thing, but people get intoo a tussle with a fox. and end up with 3 nasty lacerations, making them unable to take on another fox, in the next 2 months, unless they stack permanent wounds on themself.

damn, i got compleatly decked, by bears, with 200 in stats, and metal gear, just because it outran my horse on sprint. and it kept defending and i was unable to deal the last 20 damage through armour.

.
every time they made changes to hunting, to reduce cheese, was just the cheese becoming more cryptic and specific, and a large part of the playerbase being unable to access vital resources.

remember when animals fleeing because they cant find a path was introduced?
some sweaters, figured out the reaggro thing in the first few minutes, while the rest was compleatly cut off from bear cause they would sprint away at lightspeed if you fought them normally.
same for animal armor, projectiles, and cuttingtool hardcaps,

ultimately every change that tried to force people to hunt normaly, just made hunting nomally less desirable. and cheese more necessary

Thats not a reason to stop trying to remove cheese, it just means we need better solutions. If they find a new cheese to get around your patch, you don't just give up and except cheesing as part of the game, you instead addressed the new cheese and keep moving forward. You may never 100% fix cheese but you can incrimentally make hunting better.

As for the wound system, I actually like that a single hunt could prevent you from hunting again for awhile leading to resources being scarcer and a higher reliance on catching critters.

If people didn't have 10 drying races full on day 1 i would consider that better not worse.

I do think that nasty laceration and fell slash shouldn't be dealt by foxes and badgers though since they take awhile to progress to where you can heal them.

[Luno]

the problem isnt hunting being cheesable. but that its pretty much required.
people would spend almost their entire first week purely pescitarian, or vegetarian,

I don't agree with this for the exemples you mentioned after. Bears for exemple are very easy to kill after 300+ stats and a decent sword even whiel facetanking.
I think the main issue would actually be whales. Mammoths and even most trolls ii think can eventually be killed by fighting them head on, maybe costing you a new set armor idk. The problem is that whales make ur ship melt so cheesing them is indeed required unless u want to spend like 50 snekkjas to kill 1 whale.

You may argue that it would take too long to get to the point of killing a bear, or a mammoth or a troll head on, but i think that is exactly the goal of Prince Arthas' suggestion.

[The_Lich_King]

the problem isnt hunting being cheesable. but that its pretty much required.
people would spend almost their entire first week purely pescitarian, or vegetarian,

I don't agree with this for the exemples you mentioned after. Bears for exemple are very easy to kill after 300+ stats and a decent sword even whiel facetanking.
I think the main issue would actually be whales. Mammoths and even most trolls ii think can eventually be killed by fighting them head on, maybe costing you a new set armor idk. The problem is that whales make ur ship melt so cheesing them is indeed required unless u want to spend like 50 snekkjas to kill 1 whale.

You may argue that it would take too long to get to the point of killing a bear, or a mammoth or a troll head on, but i think that is exactly the goal of Prince Arthas' suggestion.

In theory i like the idea of whales requiring a group of individuals to kill and I certainly do not believe they should be able to be solo'd but I think their damage to boats should be reworked so that they wouldn't become cost innefficiant to hunt.

Also I would be in favor of balance changes which reduce the gatekeep on killing some animals at least a little. Maybe make Bears solo-able at 150 stats, Mammoths at 250+ ... etc. That way their progress is only gatekeeped by like a month or 2 for the elites. Since those stats are harder for solo Hermits like myself it would make bear skins and other animal produces valuable commodities at marketplaces, so we can also consider the economic benefits.

[Master_chan]

Question is why do you want to make game more tedious than it already is?

[The_Lich_King]

Question is why do you want to make game more tedious than it already is?

Hunting being dangerous and animals making it harder to survive is not tedious it brings the game back to its purpose of being a gritty survival game.

Boat hunting 10 boar a day without any danger to yourself so you can grind hide and log off is tedium. This change would remove tedium not add it.

[Archiplex]

So there is alot of discourse right now over PVP and one of the prominent tropes is that the game is too easy. Despite being a non-PVPer solo Hermit, i actually agree with this point.

But I don't think we should rely solely on PVP for the gritty survival and most of my deaths back in W7 and W8 were not from players but were instead from animals. In those days if a Bear aggro'd on you, then you were truly fucked. Let's bring back danger in Hunting.

I'm just gonna say: No thanks.

Haven doesn't need to make its playerbase even more niche. The wound system perfectly replaces permadeath by creating a very real and serious penalty for fucking up, but without scaling infinitely in the same way.

i actually think the wound system itself is what makes animals so tedious to hunt, because if you can't afford to eat many wounds you have to minimize how you take them. i wouldn't mind so much if in order to kill a boar with equal melee skills i had to take a 10 minute break to regen shp, what's not fine is accidently getting a laceration or some other bad wound and having to be on guard for several days until it heals.

i also have general issues with the combat system being both unintuitive but also easy to 'solve' once you spend a while learning all the moves and how it works - it basically only really serves to punish new players at this point. i think things need to be dumbed down in general

[The_Lich_King]

So there is alot of discourse right now over PVP and one of the prominent tropes is that the game is too easy. Despite being a non-PVPer solo Hermit, i actually agree with this point.

But I don't think we should rely solely on PVP for the gritty survival and most of my deaths back in W7 and W8 were not from players but were instead from animals. In those days if a Bear aggro'd on you, then you were truly fucked. Let's bring back danger in Hunting.

I'm just gonna say: No thanks.

Haven doesn't need to make its playerbase even more niche. The wound system perfectly replaces permadeath by creating a very real and serious penalty for fucking up, but without scaling infinitely in the same way.

i actually think the wound system itself is what makes animals so tedious to hunt, because if you can't afford to eat many wounds you have to minimize how you take them. i wouldn't mind so much if in order to kill a boar with equal melee skills i had to take a 10 minute break to regen shp, what's not fine is accidently getting a laceration or some other bad wound and having to be on guard for several days until it heals.

i also have general issues with the combat system being both unintuitive but also easy to 'solve' once you spend a while learning all the moves and how it works - it basically only really serves to punish new players at this point. i think things need to be dumbed down in general

Nasty Laceration really needs to be removed from low level animals and more be a punishment for higher level prey.

[Archiplex]

Nasty Laceration really needs to be removed from low level animals and more be a punishment for higher level prey.

yeah i kinda laughed when one of the newbies i'm teaching told me he got a blade kiss from a fox day 1. that said im pretty sure his nasty laceration was due to nicks and knacks stacking, but regardless my point remains