A real method to allow PvE

[overtyped]

Anyone have some real criticism, or see any loopholes?

[Sevenless]

Fight starts at Village A. Fight turns into a tactical jog as it always does. How do new fighters join the fray? The fight is now 20 minimaps to the west and moving as we speak. Also bodyblocking with alts in combat will be a problem since combat is constantly moving away from these flags.

I'm 100% convinced that the only way PvE works in this game is a server with tweaked rules that's fully aimed at creating a pve only game. And there would definitely be issues of griefing all the same, you'd just be aiming to make it more limited.

How do new fighters join the fray? You didn't read what I wrote, so let me quote it for you :

Any player without rage/murder/outlaw within those 200 tiles has two minutes to leave this contested zone.

Sorry for misreading, the way you worded that was a bit odd for me. So "Characters without crime skills can only be attacked if they sit within range of an aggro flag for X time".

I'm thinking there's going to be issues with alts picking up things and becoming effectively invulnerable ways to hold items (mid combat that is). Also alts being used to bodyblock in combat would be even more annoying than currently. You also need to add the "please warn noobs seven ways to sunday about buying these skills in a very blunt non-lore way so they don't screw themselves over" since it's a one click then you're pvp enabled forever type idea.

Another thing you could consider on this topic is "crimeless characters are immortal". No matter how many times hermit bob joe gets KOed, can't die. You can enforce something like lengthening KO times for rapid Kos to keep alts under control. I think that'd really help personally. Let the pvpers who want it play the permadeath.

[overtyped]

I'm thinking there's going to be issues with alts picking up things and becoming effectively invulnerable ways to hold items

In what scenario would that make sense? What object being picked up in the open world outside a palisade would constitute a problem?

Carts and boats were brought up, and I agree, it would be a problem. To address it, we would need boats and carts and the objects held inside to tie onto a character for a limited time after they stop using it, so anyone that touches those objects would be attackable for a certain window. I think that would be reasonable.

This would of course lead to noobs being tricked into holding other peoples carts, so that they can be attacked. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing though.

Another possibility is robbing a boat, then handing the objects to your alt, but this loophole already exists. They can just hearth with it, and if there are people nearby, the person doing the stealing can be aggroed, so I don't think this is really an issue.

[Sevenless]

I'm thinking there's going to be issues with alts picking up things and becoming effectively invulnerable ways to hold items

In what scenario would that make sense? What object being picked up in the open world outside a palisade would constitute a problem?

Carts and boats were brought up, and I agree, it would be a problem. To address it, we would need boats and carts and the objects held inside to tie onto a character for a limited time after they stop using it, so anyone that touches those objects would be attackable for a certain window. I think that would be reasonable.

This would of course lead to noobs being tricked into holding other peoples carts, so that they can be attacked. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing though.

Just make touching a recently dropped cart/boat theft. If you're gonna codify it in a weird way, at least make the "oops I messed up" be "oh I can't pick this boat up".

[overtyped]

I'm thinking there's going to be issues with alts picking up things and becoming effectively invulnerable ways to hold items

In what scenario would that make sense? What object being picked up in the open world outside a palisade would constitute a problem?

Carts and boats were brought up, and I agree, it would be a problem. To address it, we would need boats and carts and the objects held inside to tie onto a character for a limited time after they stop using it, so anyone that touches those objects would be attackable for a certain window. I think that would be reasonable.

This would of course lead to noobs being tricked into holding other peoples carts, so that they can be attacked. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing though.

Just make touching a recently dropped cart/boat theft. If you're gonna codify it in a weird way, at least make the "oops I messed up" be "oh I can't pick this boat up".

Nah, i wouldnt put it as theft, more a temporary thing. So for example, you touch a cart or pull a crate from a cart that isn't yours, therefore for 5 minutes you can be aggroed. Like that.

It would be silly if touching your friends cart means you can no longer logout. Simply a method to interact with people touching things that aren't theirs for a certain time window is good enough.

[mulamishne]

Another thing you could consider on this topic is "crimeless characters are immortal". No matter how many times hermit bob joe gets KOed, can't die. You can enforce something like lengthening KO times for rapid Kos to keep alts under control. I think that'd really help personally. Let the pvpers who want it play the permadeath.

Its not just crimeless characters, its crimeless affiliates. It's completely logical to gank your enemy's crafters/support staff, I've seen several industry upgrades come from it. I feel like if we want better new player protection theres more sensible ways to do it, such as reduced wounds if you don't have outlaw or something.

[overtyped]

Another thing you could consider on this topic is "crimeless characters are immortal". No matter how many times hermit bob joe gets KOed, can't die. You can enforce something like lengthening KO times for rapid Kos to keep alts under control. I think that'd really help personally. Let the pvpers who want it play the permadeath.

Its not just crimeless characters, its crimeless affiliates. It's completely logical to gank your enemy's crafters/support staff, I've seen several industry upgrades come from it. I feel like if we want better new player protection theres more sensible ways to do it, such as reduced wounds if you don't have outlaw or something.

People have brought up this weird concept of not being able to kill people who don't have rage many times, but there's a simple answer as to why it doesn't work. If you can't kill someone, then they can be a permanent road block.

[mulamishne]

Another thing you could consider on this topic is "crimeless characters are immortal". No matter how many times hermit bob joe gets KOed, can't die. You can enforce something like lengthening KO times for rapid Kos to keep alts under control. I think that'd really help personally. Let the pvpers who want it play the permadeath.

Its not just crimeless characters, its crimeless affiliates. It's completely logical to gank your enemy's crafters/support staff, I've seen several industry upgrades come from it. I feel like if we want better new player protection theres more sensible ways to do it, such as reduced wounds if you don't have outlaw or something.

People have brought up this weird concept of not being able to kill people who don't have rage many times, but there's a simple answer as to why it doesn't work. If you can't kill someone, then they can be a permanent road block.

I said reduced, not 0.

[overtyped]

I said reduced, not 0.

I was talking about why I disagree with him, not why I disagree with you. I didn't give an opinion on what you said.

[mulamishne]

I said reduced, not 0.

I was talking about why I disagree with him, not why I disagree with you. I didn't give an opinion on what you said.

Oh sorry, wasn't sure why you quoted me then.