Make Hunting Intuitive

[azrid]

You are absolutely right OP.

[MachineLegend]

What you have highlighted here is not the need for a low stat crappy creature... we already have those. You talked about tweaking bats because 2 aggro'd your friend, but regardless of if you tweak them or not that interaction will remain fundamentally the same. If a bat aggroes someone and they don't know what they are doing or they just run, they will KO regardless of how much you lower their stats. Likewise if someone KO'd to ants then it means they will KO to ants regardless if you make them fightable at 1 UA or not.

The stats of Bats and Ants aren't fundamentally the problem its that they don't understand how to fight.

So instead of the thread being "make hunting more intuitive" and it being about changing low lvl moms to be even lower, instead the focus of this thread should be "Make fighting more tutorialized"

Making fighting more tutorialized is something i fundamentally agree with, and would even like to see the option for a tutorial fight offered from your hearth fire after you purchase fighting... make it send you to a valhalla like place where you can be properly tutorialized.

I think you're half correct, fighting could certainly be more tutorialized. However, some of the people I have known playing have been told/read how combat works, but have not been provided adequate chances to apply that knowledge and actually learn it. A good tutorial can certainly give them some opportunities, but I still would only agree that it is half the issue. I disagree that by giving people more time to react and digest the appearance of the combat ui by lowering some enemy stats will not result in any positive change in their understanding of the combat. One of the biggest reasons that combat needs to be tutorialized in the first place is because none of the enemies are at an appropriate tutorial scale. Furthermore, what use is a tutorialized combat without an appropriate enemy to test your knowledge against.

[The_Lich_King]

What you have highlighted here is not the need for a low stat crappy creature... we already have those. You talked about tweaking bats because 2 aggro'd your friend, but regardless of if you tweak them or not that interaction will remain fundamentally the same. If a bat aggroes someone and they don't know what they are doing or they just run, they will KO regardless of how much you lower their stats. Likewise if someone KO'd to ants then it means they will KO to ants regardless if you make them fightable at 1 UA or not.

The stats of Bats and Ants aren't fundamentally the problem its that they don't understand how to fight.

So instead of the thread being "make hunting more intuitive" and it being about changing low lvl moms to be even lower, instead the focus of this thread should be "Make fighting more tutorialized"

Making fighting more tutorialized is something i fundamentally agree with, and would even like to see the option for a tutorial fight offered from your hearth fire after you purchase fighting... make it send you to a valhalla like place where you can be properly tutorialized.

I think you're half correct, fighting could certainly be more turorialized. However, been some of the people I have known playing have been told/read how combat worls, but have not been provided adequate chances to apply that knowledge and actually learn it. A good tutorial can certainly give them some opportunities, but I still would only agree that it is half the issue. I disagree that by giving people more time to react and digest the appearance of the combat ui by lowering some enemy stats will not result in any positive change in their understanding of the combat. One of the biggest reasons that combat needs to be turorialized is because none of the enemies are at an appropriate tutorial scale. Furthermore, what use is a turorialized combat without an appropriate enemy to test your knowledge against.

As I explained earlier, there are enemies at the tutorial level. Ants being killable with minimum damage at UA 5 is tutorial level. If you die its because you aggroed like 6 and never moved. That being said... I guess the jump between ant and bat might be big to new players... I guess. I can see how being able to outrun ants might lead to them trying movement based combat against bats and thus there should be a stage between.. maybe like a mink. As for Ants i have no idea why you think they are not tutorial. P sure i could spawn a fresh alt spam punch and quick dodge and kill an ant without moving... which is not good btw. You really shouldn't be able to fight anything with a fresh alt because you are supposed to be catching rabbits and squirrels for hide before transitioning into hunting.

Letting people hunt in the first 30 minutes of gameplay ignores an important stage in the early game.

[MachineLegend]

I can respect that perspective...

I guess ants are a weird one for me because the only incentive to fight an ant is when you raid their hill, where you aggro all of them and sticking around and fighting is, like you mention, a classically bad idea.
I do think a good common ground is introducing a critter in between ants and bats.

[The_Lich_King]

I can respect that perspective...

I guess ants are a weird one for me because the only incentive to fight an ant is when you raid their hill, where you aggro all of them and sticking around and fighting is, like you mention, a classically bad idea.
I do think a good common ground is introducing a critter in between ants and bats.

Agreed on intermediate creature. Make it easily 1v1-able without movement at 10 UA, but make it faster than you to convey to new players that some animals can't be beaten with ground movement.

As for new players aggroing what they can't handle and getting a reality check... on one hand its part of the learning experience on the other there could be a defense network

Maybe make a magic ability that comes with hearth magic which let's you see the average stats of a creature so you know if it will fuck you or not.

[overtyped]

I think animal cheesing is a good part of haven. Human ingenuity is fun.

[The_Lich_King]

I think animal cheesing is a good part of haven. Human ingenuity is fun.

Don't you also like to eat toe fungus or am I misinformed?

[overtyped]

I think animal cheesing is a good part of haven. Human ingenuity is fun.

Don't you also like to eat toe fungus or am I misinformed?

No, but Bob Dole won't turn down something that's free.

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[yym331]

As a solution to these issues, reducing the durability (HP) of animals significantly while improving their movement mechanics—such as allowing them to climb cliffs, swim, and increasing their attack range—would help balance the system ( We should also make weapon and unarmed combat penetration mechanics applicable in PvE.)
For instance, if animals had an attack range of around 160, it would effectively reduce the reliance on exploiting mechanics like boat hunting. Additionally, making animals like bears and moose capable of swimming would further address these exploits.
However, creatures with extreme durability, like Orcas, would still need a substantial reduction in their HP to maintain fairness and consistency in the game.

[Sevenless]

As a solution to these issues, reducing the durability (HP) of animals significantly while improving their movement mechanics—such as allowing them to climb cliffs, swim, and increasing their attack range—would help balance the system ( We should also make weapon and unarmed combat penetration mechanics applicable in PvE.)
For instance, if animals had an attack range of around 160, it would effectively reduce the reliance on exploiting mechanics like boat hunting. Additionally, making animals like bears and moose capable of swimming would further address these exploits.
However, creatures with extreme durability, like Orcas, would still need a substantial reduction in their HP to maintain fairness and consistency in the game.

If that's all that was done, you'd cut off hunting for most of the playerbase until much later in the world. Drastically reduce their stats so people can face tank these animals is a must. Also prevent damage fleeing in order to make hunting not feel cheesy by re-aggro trick or painful by forcing players to track them.