Massive Progression Overhaul - Destroy Bots

[Potjeh]

Grouping is intended gameplay because the game is an MMO. Botting is not because it devalues the grind for everyone and >90% of the game is grinding stuff.

[Ysh]

Botting is not intended gameplay

Bots and custom clients are both, in the philosophical fundamental of things, only means of generating server input

[Potjeh]

So they have conflicting intentions. Either there's supposed to be significant time investment, hence the grind, or there's not hence the bots. You can't have both. Also, mass use of bots to circumvent the grind indicates that the playerbase doesn't enjoy grinding as much as the game demands, so I think that if they don't want to ban bots they have to reduce the grind significantly. Stat caps were a huge step in that direction, but alas development is a tango.

[Ysh]

So they have conflicting intentions. Either there's supposed to be significant time investment, hence the grind, or there's not hence the bots. You can't have both. Also, mass use of bots to circumvent the grind indicates that the playerbase doesn't enjoy grinding as much as the game demands, so I think that if they don't want to ban bots they have to reduce the grind significantly. Stat caps were a huge step in that direction, but alas development is a tango.

Agree on all count.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Stat caps were a huge step in that direction, but alas development is a tango.

I'm curious if anyone is privy to dev rationale for removing them, and if they had/have any plans to replace them with other changes.

[tyrtix]

So they have conflicting intentions. Either there's supposed to be significant time investment, hence the grind, or there's not hence the bots. You can't have both. Also, mass use of bots to circumvent the grind indicates that the playerbase doesn't enjoy grinding as much as the game demands, so I think that if they don't want to ban bots they have to reduce the grind significantly. Stat caps were a huge step in that direction, but alas development is a tango.

Yup, i agree, even if i think that leaving the possiblity of botting to the players, there will be always some abusers, and as i already said, there will be abusers to the point they will bot the entire game :p
Anyway i will gladly return to the statcap, i wish they eventually make it so that the stat growth after 300 points will be logaritmic..or exponential needs of resources to grow.

[Avu]

I might be talking out of my ass but as far as I remember stat caps were never a favorite of jorb and the only reason they gave them a shot was because conflict at the time was very very low and there was this idea that having caps would encourage pvp. It didn't since the problems with pvp are miriad but caps or no caps isn't the big one when stale playerbase, lack of rewards, huge penalty for failure, alts, bots are all much more important.

[tyrtix]

I might be talking out of my ass but as far as I remember stat caps were never a favorite of jorb and the only reason they gave them a shot was because conflict at the time was very very low and there was this idea that having caps would encourage pvp. It didn't since the problems with pvp are miriad but caps or no caps isn't the big one when stale playerbase, lack of rewards, huge penalty for failure, alts, bots are all much more important.

Some, in fact many, of these problems have at the base some pvp mechanics... this happens in nearly all games. Removing caps gives to pvp'ers the necessity to have largely greater stats of many other players, just because they have the winning edge on others, but this thing may be achieved only by botting. Such pvp'ers that bots and kills so easily other players leads to the huge penalty when failing (even if this is mitigated by the stat regain with body... wich is not always possible) and so on.
As you can see, many of these problems are, in fact, related to each other.

[Ysh]

Stat caps were a huge step in that direction, but alas development is a tango.

I'm curious if anyone is privy to dev rationale for removing them, and if they had/have any plans to replace them with other changes.

I have talk to jorb about it in PM, but I think I can no posting it here without permission.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Hrmm, this thread vanished for a bit. Weird.