Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby fulma » Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:37 pm

Most violence and crimes I noticed over the years come from players from big villages, people from monke killed me when I was part of their own fucking village, they see a noob,their vision tunnel in a "I need to kill!" way
Just add a hiden karma to the game:

    -Your character gets bad karma when you kill or do any big criminal acts
    -Any heartling oathed in a village or realm will increase authority consumption
    -If too many heartlings with bad karma under some realm blessings can't be built/ increases time to pick thingwalls
    -Allows realm higher ups to track players with bad karma or make those players release scents
    -Make boats quality increase their speed
there, fixed your game for you, can my dev cape be pink?
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby vatas » Sat Nov 09, 2024 4:53 pm

Karma systems can almost certainly be gamed/exploited/circumvented. People making Ultima Online back in 1990s already thought that was the obvious solution. PK groups had one player/character stay blue and lure people from safe zones to an ambush of red players. Even with current year technology, there is no way for an automatic system to flag and mark such players.

(Fun fact: this is a plot point in one episode of "Sword Art Online" - which, while generally bad anime if you start analyzing it, does make at least a bit more game design sense when you realize the original web novel started all the way back in 2002 and thus was more inspired by UO and EQ, than the "modern" MMOs.)
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby widelec_szatana » Sat Nov 09, 2024 5:13 pm

fulma wrote:
    -Make boats quality increase their speed


so shidders cant get away?
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby Gauhörnchen » Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:56 pm

fulma wrote:Most violence and crimes I noticed over the years come from players from big villages, people from monke killed me when I was part of their own fucking village, they see a noob,their vision tunnel in a "I need to kill!" way
Just add a hiden karma to the game:

    -Your character gets bad karma when you kill or do any big criminal acts
    -Any heartling oathed in a village or realm will increase authority consumption
    -If too many heartlings with bad karma under some realm blessings can't be built/ increases time to pick thingwalls
    -Allows realm higher ups to track players with bad karma or make those players release scents
    -Make boats quality increase their speed
there, fixed your game for you, can my dev cape be pink?

You can just have a vault outside of a village claim OR even better, you go to a hostile realm and store your crime alts in that realm to fuck that faction over by the penalties you proposed.
Edit: Also you can build a vault without having the char be a member or even be on a claim.
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby Szat » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:07 pm

This is a neat idea. I find it funny how many notorious PvPers seem to be scared of this. Have you tried not making yourself widely loathed?
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby cellites » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:14 pm

Szat wrote:This is a neat idea. I find it funny how many notorious PvPers seem to be scared of this. Have you tried not making yourself widely loathed?

I am not a pvper, and even I see this would be worthless against big pvp clans, this would only hurt small groups that can't contest against the massive group who built the totem.
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby ZantetsukenX » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:20 pm

Szat wrote:This is a neat idea. I find it funny how many notorious PvPers seem to be scared of this. Have you tried not making yourself widely loathed?


I'm as peacefully hermit as they come and even I think this is a terrible idea. Like I do think there needs to be more punishment in place to make it not worth committing crimes for no reason, but this idea doesn't seem like the right answer. I'd prefer something that temporarily debuffs a character who murders in such a way that they will only do it when they think it's worth the debuff. For instance, make it so that if you murder someone you end up with a 7-day debuff which reduces your intellect stat by 10%. If you are going to be blind with rage, you might as well take the int hit. And the downside is that you will now gain less LP for the next week, which will put others ahead of you.
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby SnuggleSnail » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:37 pm

Szat wrote:This is a neat idea. I find it funny how many notorious PvPers seem to be scared of this. Have you tried not making yourself widely loathed?


/Most/ of the people who would drown you in a puddle are vaguely friends/friendly with each other. I mean, we'd still kill each other given the chance, but the moment this mechanic were implemented a critical mass of people would msg each other on discord and work something out within an hour.

It would go from [polska vs. snailgroup vs. AD vs. felixgroup vs. norsca vs. korea vs. trollgroup vs. hermits] to like [polska, snailgroyp, felixgroup, vs. norsca, korea, ad, trollgroup vs. hermits] the bigger group wouldn't rly be getting into any 'real' fights outside of baiting murder scents since the smaller group knows it's going to lose and won't fight/quits, so they'd ironically probably spend more time killing sprucies before they quit.
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby Luno » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:53 pm

Perhaps instead of focusing on ways to punish criminals, it would be more fruitful and more widely accepted if it was made easier to move away from your area and distance yourself from trouble.
It takes a lot of time to settle somewhere and develop a village's industry, if you have troublesome neighbors, you might as well quit or never go outside again rather than go through the trouble of trying to settle somewhere else. Maybe if there were mechanics in place that would allow hearthlings to move all their stuff and industry somewhere else, they woulnd't have to worry so much about being murdered by their neighbors.
Facilitate the nomad playstyle!!!
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Re: Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

Postby DDDsDD999 » Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:28 pm

Tracking could just use some buffs:

1. Let the tracker see how different the perp's combat stats are. Give a message like "you are weaker/about equal/stronger than the perp," based on the % difference of an aggregate of combat stats, so rangers don't get baited into tracking to a perp that will just smash their face in.

2. Make some hearth magic that gives some buff to the ranger specifically in combat against the perp. Equalizing stats by a % if they're lower would be the least abusable.
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