P2P plan

[jorb]

I cannot recall a single instance where I have been rude to anyone who was nice, or even reasonable, to me first, and if I have been I can only, and very sincerely, apologize.

Hey, dullah, you're an insufferable child with shit for attitude. Fuck off and never come back.

Jokes aside, though, we do not sell niceties, we sell a game experience, and if you can't take being growled at by the one-eyed bartender, then why have you gone slumming? I have always perceived the H&H atmosphere as rough, but loving and fairly honest, and I quite like it that way. If that's not your cup of tea then I very much want to try to manage the expectations you have on this tea parlor, and I think that is a reasonable attitude to take.

As for me personally I shall readily admit that my attitude has hardened significantly from seven-eight-ish years of running this game, and considering the kind of abuse we get every time we make a mistake, &c&c, what do you think the alternative is? H&H is by nature played for high stakes. Players get heavily invested in the game, their character, their experience, &c, and that is most certainly reflected in the attitudes that a lot of them bring with them when they then come to us with their malcontents. Have you tried having five hundred people screaming in your ear what an idiot you are for fucking up something obvious? I change a tileset and I get a shitstorm. I love what I do and I am *not* complaining, but I can assure you that stuff like that gets to you fast if you don't hunker down and grit your teeth a bit.

This game is -- money involved or no money involved -- a very personal project, and if running it implies that we need to fake and project attitudes that we do not sincerely hold, then I'm not sure I'm up for that.

I am, in short, terribly sorry, but if you tell me I'm a poopy-head, then I'll tell you the same right back.

We have already tried to create a viable one-time payment option in the account verification, but it would be dishonest to pretend that we can offer an unlimited MMO experience for a limited, one time price only. The game requires a server infrastructure and account support in order to work, and those are running costs that I want to have reflected in our payment model.

We take server availability very seriously, and strive to have as little downtime as is gnomishly possible.

[borka]

@jorb
don't forget to announce when alternative payment methods are up please

[jorb]

We most certainly will, borka. I am sorry if you feel the present game disposition post release has hurt you unnecessarily. We will certainly consider your type of case when discussing future changes and whatnot.

[borka]

at last you helped me lowering my addiction a bit looking forward ...

[Haz425]

Hi, thought I'd pop in and offer my two cents and offer some friendly advice and all that jazz. If anyone has any criticism of anything I say then feel free to share; a man can come up with a good idea, but many can come up with a great one (or something).

I'm sure that you've come to the realization this this business isn't working, and it's definitely not going to work. This kind of business model isn't sustainable in the long-term due to the nature of game-hosting as I'm sure you very well-aware, which is why consistent, stable and reliable revenue is important.

This is a very hard game to get into, and most people who stumble across this game aren't going to spend a great deal of money playing a game that they don't fully understand or have to put effort into learning. I think that this is a fair statement to make, and that these complex gameplay mechanics with steep learning curves aren't exactly user-friendly. The main market (or potential market) of this game is very niche and will appeal to very specific types of consumer. The only real method (that would be effective) of promotion is word-of-mouth which requires your consumers to be happy. If consumers aren't happy, they won't recommend the game to anyone and they certainly won't recommend spending money on it.

You need to remember that your customers and consumers are essential; even more-so for a small business and for a game as specific and niche as this. If you want this business to be sustainable in the long-term and actually want to get something out of it (rather than it being free to play, as it was) then you need to appreciate that the happiness of the consumer is going to be vital for continuing business operations. Loyalty is the key to success here, you have people who have been using your products and services (such as Haven, and Salem) for years and they continue to do so despite feeling that they are being swindled or are not getting their value-for-money. This kind of loyalty is difficult to come by by, and it's even harder to maintain, don't waste it! You have a great opportunity here to provide a high quality service to many people, whilst also generating some well-deserved profits for yourselves. Remember that you have an absolutely fantastic community here willing to support you, even though they might at times choose to be a bit silly and or stupid.

I've banged on a bit too much about the consumer, because they're important - but I'm sure you know all this. What I'm trying to get at is their essential role in the games' continued development and sustainability, however. We need to think about current and future overheads (e.g. server/site hosting) and as such it would be a very good idea to have a recurring fee. Before I start with the economic/financial segment I'd like to note that it's hard to give you any accurate or intelligent figures without any sets of data in front of me, so I'll just dart blindly and hope that it it hits the bulls-eye. A kind of 'freemium' model would be good in under the current circumstances, I'm not sure what kind of things you could concoct in the game that people would want but would not affect gameplay (cosmetic changes, name changes, forum ranks, advanced statistics etc. come to mind). Game time is good, especially for this kind of game, and for your type of business. Having a limited-time free-to-play game would allow people to come on and try the game out for a limited amount of time (that perhaps refills as it does currently?). If people wish to continue playing then they can pay a very small fee perhaps between the regions of £1.00 ~ £4.00 (ask the community what they're willing to pay, do some market research!). Now, you might be wondering why such a low price, mister? And that's a good question, and the answer is that it's a low amount of money for a single person to spend. When you tally up the figures this will help bring in a steady (and reliable, reliable is important!) amount of money continuously. This, in conjunction with the premium features (which are at an extra cost - again, these should also be affordable) will allow you to generate steady and reliable revenue from your customers.

I do want to make thing especially clear though. People want their value-for-money, they want to be spending an amount of money that is the equivalent (or in their opinion) of the service they are being provided. If people feel like they are paying too much for something, then they simply will cease to use and pay for the service. It works both ways; I think you would be surprised by the amount of people that would be willing to pay more for a few extra cosmetic/aesthetic benefits and this is particularly true for this community.

I'm sorry if I've babbled on a bit too much, so I'll summarise it quickly (or I'll try at least!):

• GENERAL/GAME:
  
  • Current business model doesn't work (as you know!)
  • You need a sustainable business model to cover running/day-to-day costs and future overheads.
• CUSTOMER/CONSUMER:
  
  • This game is heavily reliant upon word-of-mouth promotion, which is done through its consumers (i.e. the people using your service).
    
    • This is why it is important that your consumers are happy.
    • If they are happy with the services being provided they will try and rope other people (normally friends, and sometimes family) into the game too.
    • The game is hard to get into properly as it has many different complex gameplay mechanics and steep learning curves. People will, however, make an effort if it has been recommended by (or they are currently playing with) a friend.
    • This will hopefully lead to more and more people playing (and hence, paying) for the game.
    • As well as being the most effective method of promotion (for this type of game), it also has no monetary cost.
  • This game has a very niche target market, it is important to try and get/reach out to our target market as much as possible and get them hooked, so to speak.
  • The customers and consumers are essential. Even more-so for small businesses, they make up the majority (if not, all) of your revenue and (hopefully) profits.
  • Making the customer/consumer happy will fuel their loyalty, they will hopefully continue to play the game and be willing to spend money on it.
  • The customer is very important, but they're not always right.
• ECONOMIC AND FINANCIAL:
  
  • People want value-for-money, seriously - they do!
  • I don't have enough relevant data to accurately provide any intelligent figures, figures are based upon experience and conjecture alone.
  • Sustainability is important, we need a stable and reliable source of income.
  • It is a good idea to use a mixture of both a 'freemium' and 'game-time' model.
  • The game could be free-to-play for a limited amount of time, allowing people to try the game out and play for however many arbitrary hours.
    
    • This initial amount of time should be enough so that they are able to play the game long enough to become established (not really sure how long that takes the average person, though).
    • This will act (sort-of) as an incentive to continue playing (they will want to continue their progress etc.)
  • This game-time could possibly be renewed freely (as it currently is) at regular intervals. Giving people the option to continue playing without paying.
  • We're aiming to try and hit that value-for-money itch that people so desperately want us to scratch and by providing them with a high quality service at a low cost we are doing just that!
    
    • Hopefully, if people want to pay more then they can do so through paying for premium items that don't affect gameplay, as this would make the general populous of the community unhappy.
    • Premium items could include things like: cosmetic items that affect character appearance; changes to character model; new/unique animations; forum rank/privileges; advanced statistics for their character profile (over-time statistics?).
    • Premium items/benefits should also be fairly low-cost. I would expect to see a common hat or something of the sort on sale for £1.00 and a rarer/more expensive one for around £8.00 ~ £10.00. The premium items are for people who want to spend and contribute a little more money.
  • AAA MMORPG titles that are pay-to-play normally charge in the region of £8.50 ~ £12.50 as a monthly recurring fee.
  • I believe it would be a good idea to aim for a monthly recurring fee in the region of £2.50 ~ £5.00. This is in addition to the premium store/cash shop.
  • This low-cost approach will provide your customers with the sense of a real value-for-money deal whilst providing you with a steady and reliable source of revenue.
  • Remember kids: monetization is a bad word! We're just trying to make this game more economically and financially viable.
  I'd like to note, again, that the monetary figures I've used are purely speculative based upon what I know about small business/indie games. I don't have any data or research in regards to H&H so it may not be entirely accurate! (forgive me, father)

If you've made it this far then I appreciate that you've taken the time to read my blathering nonsense. I want to see this game (and this business) succeed, which is why I've spent so much time writing this (in)coherent proposal(?). I normally prefer to do this kind of brain-storming/idea generation in real-time rather than on a forum, it's slow and you probably already know half the stuff I've covered anyway! I hope that I've helped in some way or another, I like to think that at least some of what I've written is helpful and or smart. Please do let me know if it has helped, or if you'd like more of my help!

I should go to bed now, it's almost 4 AM and I have university in a couple of days and have to prepare for yet another presentation, jolly good!

bye, have a grate tiem

[Russaria]

H&H is by nature played for high stakes. Players get heavily invested in the game, their character, their experience, &c, and that is most certainly reflected in the attitudes that a lot of them bring with them when they then come to us with their malcontents.

We have already tried to create a viable one-time payment option in the account verification, but it would be dishonest to pretend that we can offer an unlimited MMO experience for a limited, one time price only. The game requires a server infrastructure and account support in order to work, and those are running costs that I want to have reflected in our payment model.

Do you suffer from an ACTUAL diagnosed mental illness like Multiple personalities or what. If so, That's understandable, but how can you otherwise possibly expect people to read the above statements and not have their eyes bulge out in disbelief. You state the 1st line and yet spring a 15$ paywall on a free unsupported game (Haven). threaten that purchase with a warning (As long as it lasts), and knowing how many and what people did in that game as far as accounts go. without warning or even a last day to take a damn screenie of their work, blew their minds, starved all their animals , leaving them spinning in a circle going WTF (ya know, all those hardcore personal invested players you talk about above) and yet you act both shocked and abusive when those very people you claim in your 1st quoted statement above are horrified to the point of thinking it is a joke and going off like isil bombs. you think that sounds sincere or even true?

To your 2nd statement, the number of mmos that use a sub only model for their only income is so low one would have to think for 30 mins to name more than 1 hands worth if you can do that at all. ALL those mmos use cosmetics, item malls, Perks and benefits along with (If they use a sub at all) a very small token one. Any one with an ounce of business sense or personal ethics would have known that using Haven, even in it's MINIMAL supported state as a FTP introduction to the THEN offered Hafen @ a small reasonable price, say 4.99/mnth + item mall would have been fine with everyone, brought in all the money you would need and a hell of a lot more than you got now or will get in the future using this ridiculous behavior and considering what reputation was already there has been destroyed (or reconsidered) by even your hardcore . What possessed you to think paywalling Haven without warning, and then charging AAA mmo prices for another alpha, is so beyond the pale of normal business sense that of COURSE everyone was furious and there was really no other option but to understand they had all just been pissed in their face with both a giggle and gaff from the both of you because it was just that shocking and laughable.

And don't try to say oops, we made a mistake, because you had DAYS AND DAYS to undo that before everyone lost everything on Haven IF that (A mistake) is what you really thought.

[jorb]

I'm sure that you've come to the realization this this business isn't working, and it's definitely not going to work.

That is indeed not at all a conclusion we have drawn.

[jorb]

Do you suffer from an ACTUAL diagnosed mental illness like Multiple personalities or what.

Russaria, I get the impression that you want to have a conversation with me, but if you want that then please stop filling your every damn post with crude and base insults, because I am not going to read them if you do. One more post like that and you are out of here.

How the hell do you expect me to treat you well, formulate a serious response, or, indeed, even read, when you begin your posts like this?

[painhertz]

Haz425: TL,DR Fuck off. In short, go write your economics thesis model somewhere else.

[Chudo123]

People want their value-for-money, they want to be spending an amount of money that is the equivalent (or in their opinion) of the service they are being provided. If people feel like they are paying too much for something, then they simply will cease to use and pay for the service. It works both ways; I think you would be surprised by the amount of people that would be willing to pay more for a few extra cosmetic/aesthetic benefits and this is particularly true for this community.

Аbsolutely a true statement.