RFC: Hunting Exploits

[ErdTod]

I've done some hunting and I must say that without cheesing the animals, there is not so much fun in it. And with cheesing - that's still not the best part of the game. I am too lazy to read all the 15 pages, so I'll just toss out my thoughts. Basically, after the animal starts fleeing, if you don't cheese it, you have no chance to catch it unless you have horse, or the animal is slow enough to be caught up with enough water. So you either cheese them, or you have a big chance to just loose the time and whatever gear got damaged in the fight for no benefit.

Ideal solution to my taste is a revamped combat system to one like in Salem - where skills are time and skill based. I.e. hunting Aggropelters is also a lot of running around, but this running is fun compared to chasing fleeing animal. The card-game combat is interesting in terms of game-design, but IMO it doesn't fit really well such type of game. You just stand still and play cards with bears and bulls - it would be much more fun to evade aurochs rushed run towards you, and time your attack to hit it in the process!

But since this is not happening, here are some other thoughts:
- People cheese animals because they flee - make fleeing threshold further away (i.e. half-dead animals don't run away, only 90% dead animals run away - basically when the fight is already lost). Make their run away speed slower compared to healthy animal.
- People cheese animals because animals are stronger - via using boats or entering caves or houses to close openings. Make animals deaggro targets that can't be reached much faster, so you can't really do much without facing the beast again. So you will have to have needed stats to fight, and not cheese. There are some possible exploits to this, though.
- People are cheesing animals using alts - don't have much to say about this, I hate alts (and botting), so my suggestion is to ban alts

Also, additional mechanics to hunting would spark it up. Fights are different only for which cards do you use - I don't have much experience with hunting - but since it's a deck-building mechanic, there is probably the most efficient decks, that make the fight basically the same all the time. I like how trolls can cause cave-ins, so similar interactions with more animals would be really fun IMO.

[VDZ]

All animals should be able to swim and destroy boats.
All animals should be able to go through ridges.
Exiting or entering buildings or caves should be impossible while in combat with animals.

Holy crap, do you want escaping from animals to be impossible or what? What's next, all animals should have a chance to instantly teleport next to you on aggro? I don't cheese the animals (save for ants because they just keep respawning too quickly), and being able to escape is a must when facing an animal I'm not sure I can beat. (Damn you, 430+ HP boar monster...once my wounds are healed I'm getting my revenge.)

[Machenoid]

Killing a boar as someone with 10 MA at the time was as simple as encountering it from a L-shaped cliff that was layed out in a form which let the boar run a proper circle around it with barely any additional movement from myself:
Stand on the top of a cliff, aggro the boar, the pathing takes the shortest route but doesn't update until the boar collides with the cliff again.
By the time the boar has turned on one end of the L-shape i've jumped the cliff and moved closer to the other end of the L-shape cliff making the opposite end the "closest"
When you're setup and believe the boar can't break the pathing loop, while you're on top of the cliff you can in theory shoot another arrow down at it when it passes by like a shooting gallery; the path the boar is on is known, you just need to time the shot properly and have it hit.
Once the boar starts bleeding it never leaves aggro no matter how much HP it bleeds out, at which point you can just jump the cliff until it dies from blood loss.

Direct Solutions:
- Fix blood loss not activate fleeing
- If the animal fails to path to the player repeatedly have them disengage combat and run away
- Allow animals to jump in the "down" direction from cliffs

[Lojka]

i think animals should close their openings too, if u hide from them

it won't make them more aggressive, and fights will be more equal


and maybe a fleeing animal should make way throught some items, like bushes, rocks, and other small items

like... irl bear can't be stopped by a bush, he jsut walk inside it...

and if they will do this only on flee, it won't help them to kill you

i think we should only rework animals, to make them save their lives more, not to kill us easier (like beaver damn)

[Granger]

Direct Solutions:
- Fix blood loss not activate fleeing
- If the animal fails to path to the player repeatedly have them disengage combat and run away
- Allow animals to jump in the "down" direction from cliffs

and maybe a fleeing animal should make way throught some items, like bushes, rocks, and other small items
...
i think we should only rework animals, to make them save their lives more, not to kill us easier (like beaver damn)

Both IMHO reasonable suggestions.

[proknah]

- Forbid players to melee attack from a boat.
- Make it so animals drop defense penetration bar to zero if it can't reach its target.
- Animals should be destroying stuff in their way not only when being aggroe'd, but when fleeing too.

[ErdTod]

Restrictions on players like not allowing to attack from boat aren't fun and realistic, but the "lose aggro" if can't reach might work (though it is kinda against archer-style hunting) - closing opening if can't reach is also a valid option IMO.

[VDZ]

- Make it so animals drop defense penetration bar to zero if it can't reach its target.

closing opening if can't reach is also a valid option IMO.

Animals can get stuck during legit combat (if you actually move around instead of just standing still in front of the animal). Negating a legit player's hard work by instantly dropping the defense to zero would be far too harsh. I don't mind them using defensive moves when not in range (just like players do), though.

[ErdTod]

them using defensive moves when not in range (just like players do), though.

I actually meant that.

[azrid]

This can be changed once I am done feeding my miners.