Inner village trade (coins)

[Phizuol]

if Quailty or type of metals were put on coins, it would be useless. the person with the most metal wins. I would not use this system.


a system- that has a City stamp- that can only be placed by LS of that city- would make it so miners cant just make coins and be rich.

See, that's the opposite of how I see it. You say useful metal has no value but a worthless stamp from a city has value. What happens when some drama or warfare collapses the village? Now your coins are junk.

Someone who has gold could be rich? Why shouldn't that be true? Gold and metal already has a value whether it is a coin or not. If a village trades gold as coins or as nuggets what is the difference? What makes coins useful is having a small fraction of a valuable item that can be traded for minor items like blueberries or whatever.

The only difference with stamped coins is that the LS will be able to print infinite money with no true value whatsoever. Nobody will buy into such a system.

[Sevenless]

See, that's the opposite of how I see it. You say useful metal has no value but a worthless stamp from a city has value. What happens when some drama or warfare collapses the village? Now your coins are junk.

I have a funny feeling this would actually please jorb.

[maze]

if Quailty or type of metals were put on coins, it would be useless. the person with the most metal wins. I would not use this system.


a system- that has a City stamp- that can only be placed by LS of that city- would make it so miners cant just make coins and be rich.

See, that's the opposite of how I see it. You say useful metal has no value but a worthless stamp from a city has value. What happens when some drama or warfare collapses the village? Now your coins are junk.

[/quote]



if war hits your town and somehow your village economay fails. then coins being able to be melted down to unstamped coins (but q10) would be ok in my books.
Thats life in HnH
the stamp is to stop fraud of coins inside your town.

Someone who has gold could be rich? Why shouldn't that be true? Gold and metal already has a value whether it is a coin or not. If a village trades gold as coins or as nuggets what is the difference? What makes coins useful is having a small fraction of a valuable item that can be traded for minor items like blueberries or whatever.

the fact I have houses full of metal, Silver and Gold and all, would make my miners rich. they would own everything in my town without question.
So ie wanna be rich in an unstamped system. be a miner, farmers get fked 100% over.
Gold is worthless in High end villages. Metal is worthless.
Anyone able to make coins-would make it so the coins cant have a proper value added to em. making em'~~ USELSSS.

The only difference with stamped coins is that the LS will be able to print infinite money with no true value whatsoever. Nobody will buy into such a system.

would be again a BAD LS. you should kill an LS (leader) who would be willing to fuck their own towns economy over so much.
the difference is LS being able to make the coins and not any noob off the street who mined a few things.
not every village wants more billion fragments of metal.

[_Gunnar]

The only difference with stamped coins is that the LS will be able to print infinite money with no true value whatsoever. Nobody will buy into such a system.

would be again a BAD LS. you should kill an LS (leader) who would be willing to fuck their own towns economy over so much.

No, quantitative easing is what allows us to fight recessions!

You, as the government, have to have some way of backing your currency I think, whatever happens, or why would people use it. Gold/silver might be a convenient way of doing this, unless you want to have a national debt or something and do the above?

Edit: I still dont know why you guys dont want them meltable. The stamp on your q10 iron coin makes it worth much more than the metal, unless inflation gets out of control. With my system for testing genuine coins, you just put the village stampmill on the central bank's claim and noone else can use it. Maybe my forgery idea was a bit too fiddly for the game, though.

[maze]

my village would use a system where I give em' money for curios they make. the curios would go onto a trade stand and they would buy ones that they need or want.

if I end up getting to many of 1 curio i would start buying the curio for less.
Curios are always needed~
gold is again useless as fuck....I don't get why people don't see this...but it might be cuz you people don't have access to gold.
one you have 1 chest of gold bars. you are pretty much set....and then the gold just keeps coming and coming.
In a village where metal is used as paper weights....metal has no value. I'd rather trade q150carrots...what have more value then q100 metal.

and I don't mind the melting coins to get bars back. problem is that would mean a great deal of tracking the coins or having bronze, silver, blah blah coins.
what sure, is great for larping...
but I much rather 1 type of coin so that I don't need to over see a bunch of coins.
if melting down had to be a thing. we would have to make it so that all the coins are iron.
if no melting, then the coins can be of any metal.

tracking metals is something Im sure J&L don't wanna do.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

Alright, I have to put in my .02c on this.

You're utterly failing to recognize the value of coins for what they are.

Coins cannot be counterfeited, especially in HnH. Because their intrinsic value is the metal on which they're made. You cannot flood my market with counterfit tin coins, for instance, because those tin coins can be converted back into tin. I will never turn down more tin. Or copper, or whatever I choose to make my coins out of.

By flooding my market with 'counterfit' coins, I just convert them back into metal, and make curios and such out of them either to use myself, or resell. This really isn't a problem.

If you haven't balanced your prices and system this way, then you're doing economies wrong.

You, as the government, have to have some way of backing your currency I think, whatever happens, or why would people use it. Gold/silver might be a convenient way of doing this, unless you want to have a national debt or something and do the above?

No, you don't, as mentioned above the intrinsic value of the coins is the material of which you made them. This is not a modern economy where flimsy bits of paper are what give the coins value. The coins themselves are intrinsically valuable, equal to whatever that particular metal is worth to you.

gold is again useless as fuck....I don't get why people don't see this...but it might be cuz you people don't have access to gold.
one you have 1 chest of gold bars. you are pretty much set....and then the gold just keeps coming and coming.
In a village where metal is used as paper weights....metal has no value. I'd rather trade q150carrots...what have more value then q100 metal.

Then you need to set a sale price on your coins that is an equivalent to the value you have for Q150. The villages that use metal as paperweights are the ones that can afford to build and back a coin based trade system. For those who can't get enough metal, they certainly aren't going to spend it making coins.

Supply and Demand is kind of the point.

Someone who has gold could be rich? Why shouldn't that be true? Gold and metal already has a value whether it is a coin or not. If a village trades gold as coins or as nuggets what is the difference? What makes coins useful is having a small fraction of a valuable item that can be traded for minor items like blueberries or whatever.

Fun fact, gold is not as intrinsically valuable as just about anything else you could name. I personally have little to no use for a gold or silver mine, and if I had one would largely use it for building buildings or making symbel items. The rest of it is just useless fluff. Iron makes tools and curios, wrought makes armor, weapons, and walls, steel makes the same and walls. FAR more valuable than gold.

Preventing coins from being melted down is crucial for a town to be managing their monetary supply. Governments in real life make it illegal for exactly the same reason. Besides which, in order for coins to be properly convenient, they would lose their quality and which metal they're from even. All those little annoying hassles with homogenizing your coin supply from earlier worlds needs to die for this to work.

Wrong, not being able to smelt coins back into bars RUINS the value of the coin. Coins are not some nebulous item with no value, they are, again as mentioned above, valuable because they are made from metal... If I can't turn it back into a bar, I don't want your coin.

[_Gunnar]

You, as the government, have to have some way of backing your currency I think, whatever happens, or why would people use it. Gold/silver might be a convenient way of doing this, unless you want to have a national debt or something and do the above?

No, you don't, as mentioned above the intrinsic value of the coins is the material of which you made them. This is not a modern economy where flimsy bits of paper are what give the coins value. The coins themselves are intrinsically valuable, equal to whatever that particular metal is worth to you.

If you can back it (which might be a good definition of whether you have a modern economy or not ) you CAN give the coins more than their intrinsic value. There is no fundamental reason why such a modern economy could not exist in haven, although with current mechanics it would be rather difficult.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

The question is why not trade for the bars themselves instead of trading for coins and then taking another step to smelting it down. I remember Koya making a similar suggestion in world 3 and a lot of the flaws has been pointed out. Unfortunate the topic he made was swallowed up by forum malfunction so I can't provide the link but I recall some of the points that were made.

1. For many cases, items are only good as how desired they are. For many purposes, it is for their usefulness in the game.
2. If you are trading coins to smelt back to bars, why not just trade for bars themselves? Coins themselves don't have value, the metals do
3. Coin smelter had required a good amount steel in the past which would be inefficient to make unless it was enforced by either the game itself or by the majority of trading power.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

If you can back it (which might be a good definition of whether you have a modern economy or not ) you CAN give the coins more than their intrinsic value. There is no fundamental reason why such a modern economy could not exist in haven, although with current mechanics it would be rather difficult.

There is little to no reason for such an economy to exist. You are attempting to over complicate a matter for no other reason than trying to make modern economical models fit into an Iron Age setting. It's neither necessary nor desirable.

You want to increase the intrinsic value of YOUR coin? Make it out of higher Q metals, that's how you make it more valuable as a trade token.

Now, it would be nice if mechanics were put in place to recognize comparative Q values and give us the ability to put in an exchange rate in our region.

(In region 1, 10 10Q Iron Coins may be worth 1 40Q Iron Coin, or .1 100Q Iron Coin. Perhaps they want 10 10Q Copper Coins to be equal to 100 10Q Iron Coins... Or maybe one region buys 20 blueberries for 10 10Q Iron Coins, while the next one over buys 20 for 20 10Q Iron coins... The local economical models of a village or region will make it happen).

Remember, all of these open the way for trade unions who enforce (by politics or force) a standardized trade value for a given item.

I hope they don't simplify anything or give us too many mechanics that will help standardize it.

This, as it has been through history, is a game to be solved by playing the Social Minigame, not by hard coded mechanics.

Give us the ability to make bars into coins, and let us sort out the details. It's one more game to play within the game.

[Sevenless]

You are attempting to over complicate a matter for no other reason than trying to make modern economical models fit into an Iron Age setting.

Coins were used in the iron age as a means of currency. The additional protections suggested are purely due to difference between real life and game life. The differences are entirely why coins failed in legacy, and sticking with purely realistic coins in hafen would likewise lead to failure.

This, as it has been through history, is a game to be solved by playing the Social Minigame, not by hard coded mechanics.

Legacy hit a peak in this. There is only so much you can do with social mechanics before the unwieldy reality of this being a game vs real life causes it to collapse. Cost of information/goods exchange is relatively much larger in game than it is in real life. Hard coded mechanics targetted at easing things like collecting payments and automatically managing rights to plots or the like are critical if something like open cities are ever to exist on a wider scale. And I personally want to see that happen.

Without changing these mechanics, the game will socially stay as it is. Social management aids in haven has always been non-existent and the game could be so much more.