Alternatives to pay to win

[Beezer12Washingbeard]

Monetize forum game. Custom name color. Badge or whatever. Paid emoticons. Subscription only boards.

Pay for unban.

That's been Something Awful's model since 2001 and it's done well for them.

(granted this isn't Something Awful so it wouldn't work, but still)

[wolf1000wolf]

What I'm getting from OP's response is that he is a man of great principle and would feel bad/empty paying for the game and then beating up those poor disadvantaged players who chose to play this game as f2p.

[waga]

I know the new world starts in 2 days so this post is too late. I REALLY hate the idea of pay to win, and despite being really excited for a new world I probably will not play this world because of it. This thread is not for debating what "pay to win" means or if haven is pay to win. For all intents and purposes we're going to call it pay to win in this thread. This thread is for everyone who is disatisfied with the current system providing unfair benefits to unworthy players.

If there is ANY chance of changing the devs' minds before the world starts we must HURRY. Maybe they are not trying to come up with better ideas, maybe they can't see any alternative. Doesn't matter. Let's brainstorm for them.

So HOW can haven make money without offering unfair benefits? Do you guys have any suggestions? Can anything be done to make previously tried systems more lucrative(cosmetic items, pay to play, etc...)? Is there a completely new system we could try?

Isn't the total for verified account and 1 month subscription like 22$?

Where the 30 day subscription is 7$? Which in my country is 63 SEK or about 15 minutes of work? How is that even "pay to win"? And the subscription is for 30 days or almost 25 cent per day, or about 30 sec of being at work, per day...
Not to be rude, but how damn poor are people playing this game?

So what do you do when shady mc person buys a few sub tokens and suddenly he has higher quality items than you even though he has played for like 5 minutes total
Because a friend did something like that (and shortly after quit, but yeah)

It's a shitty argument, I know, and I won't defend it, because I don't really personally care that much. But I suppose it's worth considering.

You're happy a whale allowed you to play the game you love.
It's not like this guy will affect much your experience anyway ...

Yes I'd prefer to play on a 30€ / month server .
That's like 0.20€ / hour , what other activities are this cheap exactly ??
but you would scream bloody murder and it wouldn't save the problem anyway because we would be 50 max :p
You don't work for free , devs don't either.
They tried a cosmetic approach it didn't work , at some point they need to make some money.

Ppl who complain it's pay 2 win are the same who play this game for free for many years and are ungrateful bastards.
I will probably suscribe my 2 accounts , not because it gives me an unfair advantage but because the devs deserve it considering the time I spend on it.
my 2 cents

[Redlaw]

If I play as much as I tend to do, over all I personally have not noticed much of a difference, ya they are perks and would mean in a few cases I would feel less attached to what I have earned (not by much lol). The fact I can play for free, help others in the game and have the game time logged that people wont whine about that (seen it) ect...

Main thing for me that is going to affect my game play is the inventory change. But I understand it and will work around it.

Hell they could add a section where people pay 30 bucks per pop (or more) for more space up to some max and I would not care. In the end whats the differnce? More then one trip for foraging ect.... it is a quality of life thing one that if I cant get, then all well. But props to those that sink the case it.


I be more upset if they wear selling gold/silver bars in the shop then what they are as is. I mean one you find in the game and is part of the fun, not how fast things work, ect...


Though if they sold Flint& Steel or Match Boxes in the shop people might just get lazy and buy them since its simpler then spending your time making the items...

[cyrus9586]

I've spent a lot of time arguing HnH with Shady here IG and I'm sorry but I was waiting for his excuse not to join W10.
So let me break this down.
First the game is not really P2W. There are no micro transactions that allow you to jump ahead. There are no lock boxes with loot you should not have yet etc. All you really get is time reduction. You get to progress SLIGHTLY faster.
Heres a quick overview of when he came back to W9. My village helped him kick some noobs off of the decayed village we were both in. He did some raiding of abandoned places etc. Seemed like he was going to get started making it into a village again. Cool. I log in one day to a message saying he has killed himself and he is leaving. Never tried to recruit etc. His reason? Theres too much of gap between vet factions and himself. He wanted to "win" HnH. Start wars and band people together and come out on top. The game got boring and there was nothing to do but raid old claims and take stuff.

Just before that he was going to build a Knarr load up everything and just sail somewhere new. He decided not to do that and just drown himself cause knarrs can be looted while the person is offline. I tried to tell him to just sail off find a place Pclaim it and come back for the stuff OR sail off Pclaim wait 8 hours and it'll be safe unless they want to leave scents. My exact plan I detailed to him was "Give yourself like a 14 hour day. Go sail for 4-6 hours one way. Build a pali and Pclaim stick around till claim is ready and then unload your knarr. By then you can have a house, walls, minehole if you have the mats, everything you'd need. Your stuff will be safe." Instead he drowned himself and gave me everything. Admittedly a lot of everything but still.

He never really tried to recruit. He built the Vidol but never activated it. He tore down walls and stuff but even after telling him how to secure everything easily he decided against doing it. I ended up getting a real "I'm just too lazy" vibe from it all. And now here he is again. As I said I have seen Free players jump past vets due to hard work, careful planning, sweat, blood, and tears poured into the game. Hell I started mid W9 and I ended up in a decent place and I was lazy as hell.

Basically again I get the "I am too lazy to try and compete so I won't even try." Vibe. Since he won't even say what he thinks is P2W about this game as Loftar as asked him I think 2 times now. And even though he doesn't want to debate it he still chose to use a title that entices that argument I gotta think this is just a QQ thread.

Sorry bro I won't sugar coat this for you. If you're in for W10 your in as it is. Don't show up 2 days before hand whining about stuff when you didn't even research anything. I learned long ago the HnH is like a second life and if you want it you gotta work your ass off for it. And paying doesn't equate to that much of a bonus in the long run. And since they are talking about capping combat attributes as well then even more so your argument is invalid.

[NotJimmy97]

I disagree with parts of your argument OP.

This thread is not for debating what "pay to win" means or if haven is pay to win. For all intents and purposes we're going to call it pay to win in this thread. This thread is for everyone who is disatisfied with the current system providing unfair benefits to unworthy players.

You're treating it as though the game being pay-to-win is some sort of axiom that everyone can agree on, but that's not true.

This is my philosophy:
The reason why Haven & Hearth is not pay-to-win is because it is expected, that if you're going to try to become a serious power, you pay for verification and a subscription. That is the base level of difficulty in the game - the serious players.

For people who are trying the game out, play casually, or who live on the streets and play H&H at the public library, there is essentially a trial mode available, where you get to play for free without the advantages held by verified subscribers. This is the mode I have used this entire world, where I was less concerned with becoming a world power and competing with my stronger neighbors. However, in W10, I intend to verify and subscribe.

Now, if there was an economy in the game, where people could buy subtokens and then trade for everything they need, that would be pay-to-win. But as far as I know, such an economy does not exist (yet) and this issue comes up whenever people propose new payment systems for the game.

[shadyg0d]

At this point I'd have to write like 89 paragraphs to defend my thread and explain why this is a big deal to me, why I'm not just a whiner, lazy freeloader etc...

I made this thread to let those who don't like the payment model be heard by the devs, and to brainstorm alternatives, not to debate with those who are fine with the payment model.

Apparently I'm alone in this and the majority of people here think it's just not a big deal.

You are entitled to your opinions and I wish you all a happy world 10.

[wolf1000wolf]

A concise paragraph or two would suffice really.

[NotJimmy97]

I made this thread to let those who don't like the payment model be heard by the devs, and to brainstorm alternatives, not to debate with those who are fine with the payment model.

That removes an important part of the dialog though, doesn't it? "Payment system is not a problem" is a valid option, after all.

[Damon_Cooper]

IMHO, inventory for money looks a little bit sadistic. Like "We know what you want, and you should pay for it".