What would change if Death was removed?

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby ekzarh » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:27 am

How many non-permadeath games we have? Millions.
How many permadeath games? I think less than a dozen.

Why do I personally play Haven when there are so many games with many cool features and looks? Cuz other games don't offer any interesting risk vs reward, although Haven is way more carebear now too which is bad.

So removing death would make Haven lose its uniqueness and get on the same level with many other games with million $ budgets and 200+ people teams.
User avatar
ekzarh
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:42 pm

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby 2d0x » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:08 pm

ekzarh wrote:...So removing death would make Haven lose its uniqueness ...

Not the removal of death at all, but the removal of stupid senseless murders.
ekzarh wrote:...and get on the same level with many other games with million $ budgets and 200+ people teams.

In fact, it's money that developers need ;\
Excuse me, I don't speak English.
User avatar
2d0x
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:09 am
Location: Russia

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby Avu » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:35 pm

Ozzy123 wrote:The game would be boring, most of the players from russia/poland that are hardcore players would quit, there would be even more titan characters, the gap between noobs and pros would be even bigger.. yeah


Woah woah we wouldn't want that now would we? That would be terrible.

Anyway removing death wouldn't be enough, it would have to include vandalism over claims with the current siege system which would need to be tweaked.

A push out mechanic would have to be included to get rid of alt blockers.

There will be some forest cutting alts around not so much because forest cutting is effective grieffing but because the a way more efficient grieffing method got removed (you know killing the people). Same way the god killer dude killed quest givers people will always find ways to grieff without you being able to do fuck all to them murder ability or not. The problem is alts not inability to murder.

Grieff claims will be more of a thing. Play style would need to be adapted to gather all the lp for your claim before deciding on settling on a final location. A modified claim shield system could be used only instead of guards on siege machines one would have to pay a cost depending on the size and level of development of the claim one wants to remove. The defender will have to pay say half of the same cost for the challenge to fail with the price increasing the older the claim is. The timing should be a week or so. The price should be steep. Should sort out most grieffing cases.

There will be some alts on bots blaring insults near walls and the like. I'd just clover a boar and pen it in with the alt. Or push the alt around a bit.

There will be pushing alts that push you when you go about your business. Pushing should check the str and con of the characters and depending on the difference the longer it takes to push. Characters should get a huge bonus while on their claim with added bonuses for their village and kingdom claims and the bonus should decrease the further one goes from these locations. This should get rid of pushing alts but some developed pushing shenanigans might still happen. Beats dying though.

Eventually there will be a need for systems of pvp of the non murdering kind. Leaderboards for stats, number of animal kills, number of foods eaten for each type, item quality, deepest well, animals owned etc... Ability to place enforced wagers over sparring matches.
"Since all men count themselves righteous, and since
no righteous man raises his hand against the innocent,
a man need only strike another to make him evil."
User avatar
Avu
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:00 pm

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby NOOBY93 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:30 pm

Killing isn't just about removing bodyblocking alts. If killing were removed, you could be an absolute pest to anyone and destroy their stuff without them being able to destroy you. Game is centered around being able to do WHATEVER you want - create anything anywhere permanently, but also be able to remove other players' permanent creations and characters.
Jalpha wrote:I believe in my interpretation of things.
User avatar
NOOBY93
 
Posts: 6528
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby 2d0x » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:46 pm

NOOBY93 wrote:If killing were removed, you could be an absolute pest to anyone and destroy their stuff without them being able to destroy you.

If criminal acts become available only after studying the skills of pvp, then such problems do not arise.
NOOBY93 wrote:Game is centered around being able to do WHATEVER you want - create anything anywhere permanently, but also be able to remove other players' permanent creations and characters.

Currently, the game encourages the senseless killing of defenseless players. When you hunt, you make a choice: to attack or not. And you have a chance to survive even if the animal turned out to be stronger. But when another player attacks you, you have no choice, no chance.
Personally, I'm not against permanent death, realism and pvp. But instead of realism, I see a manic hunt for skulls, and instead of pvp - slaughter of weak and peaceful players who can not protect themselves.
Excuse me, I don't speak English.
User avatar
2d0x
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:09 am
Location: Russia

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby NOOBY93 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:53 pm

2d0x wrote:
NOOBY93 wrote:If killing were removed, you could be an absolute pest to anyone and destroy their stuff without them being able to destroy you.

If criminal acts become available only after studying the skills of pvp, then such problems do not arise.
NOOBY93 wrote:Game is centered around being able to do WHATEVER you want - create anything anywhere permanently, but also be able to remove other players' permanent creations and characters.

Currently, the game encourages the senseless killing of defenseless players. When you hunt, you make a choice: to attack or not. And you have a chance to survive even if the animal turned out to be stronger. But when another player attacks you, you have no choice, no chance.


If criminal acts become available only after studying the skills of pvp, then such problems do not arise.

Criminal acts are not the only way to mess up someone. It's a multiplayer game. Say, hypothetically, you really like a tree. I really like the tree too. I claim the tree, I just messed a part of you up doing that. No criminal acts involved. If there's more than 1 person in the universe, at some point the wishes of one will clash with the wishes of another and create conflict. If there was a way in the game to avoid conflict and choose not to do PvP, the game would be flawed.

Currently, the game encourages the senseless killing of defenseless players.


No it doesn't. Nidbanes, redhanded (1 hour waste of time), outlaw (removes use of charter stones), especially redhanded, make you not want to random kill defenseless people who don't have anything useful for you, for no reason.

But when another player attacks you, you have no choice, no chance.


Yes you do, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Jalpha wrote:I believe in my interpretation of things.
User avatar
NOOBY93
 
Posts: 6528
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby 2d0x » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:59 pm

NOOBY93 wrote:...Nidbanes...

Very funny :\ A high Stealth parameter and no tracks :\ Plus your descendant after permanent death loses the lion's share of LP :\
Last edited by 2d0x on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Excuse me, I don't speak English.
User avatar
2d0x
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:09 am
Location: Russia

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby NOOBY93 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:01 pm

NOOBY93 wrote:especially redhanded,


And I don't understand the whining about people with high stats killing you, people with high stealth being untrackable, like no shit, all strong players started as sprucecaps and worked their way up, if you want to avoid dying, join them or become as strong as them, the game isn't going to babysit you because you're too lazy to develop your character.
Jalpha wrote:I believe in my interpretation of things.
User avatar
NOOBY93
 
Posts: 6528
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby 2d0x » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:05 pm

NOOBY93 wrote:
And I don't understand the whining about people with high stats killing you, people with high stealth being untrackable, like no shit, all strong players started as sprucecaps and worked their way up, if you want to avoid dying, join them or become as strong as them, the game isn't going to babysit you because you're too lazy to develop your character.

That is, players are to blame for not being well-versed in the game, that they are not cruel enough and they do not have much time? So cute.

NOOBY93, and why did you decide that the desire of psychos, idiots and maniacs in the game should be in the first place ?!
Last edited by 2d0x on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Excuse me, I don't speak English.
User avatar
2d0x
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:09 am
Location: Russia

Re: What would change if Death was removed?

Postby NOOBY93 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:08 pm

2d0x wrote:
NOOBY93 wrote:
And I don't understand the whining about people with high stats killing you, people with high stealth being untrackable, like no shit, all strong players started as sprucecaps and worked their way up, if you want to avoid dying, join them or become as strong as them, the game isn't going to babysit you because you're too lazy to develop your character.

That is, players are to blame for not being well-versed in the game, that they are not cruel enough and they do not have much time? So cute.

What?

You don't need to be cruel to level up your character, what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm not particularly well-versed in the game (don't know 90% of the mechanics post-legacy) nor do I have too much time, but I joined the strong players and I don't die to random players. If you can't beat them join them.

Again, the game isn't going to babysit you. If you're incapable of fighting the nolifers, work for the nolifers, plenty of them would let you do that.
Jalpha wrote:I believe in my interpretation of things.
User avatar
NOOBY93
 
Posts: 6528
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Claude [Bot] and 72 guests