Salt rework

[Granger]

Thinking further on

One option to remove the impact of individual outliner high quality ingredients could be changing the quality formula for items and builings from (q1+q2+...+qn)/n to (q1*q2*...*qn)^(1/n), which would reduce a bone saw made of q10 bough and q200 bone from q105 down to q~45.

applying this for every craft (and all processes that happen inside smelters, kilns, ovens, ...) would reduce the absolute quality level quite a bit by reducing the effect of oneven qualities of source materials: it would no longer be possible to hammer a q10 something into a q166 anotherthing with a q400 anvil/hammer as it would yield a more reasonable ~q44 instead.

[Gensokyo]

Compost bins are the root of all evil
Better Q soil > better Q trees > better Q compost bin > even better Q soil > even better Q trees

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Some good points made here. Made a note for future references. Feel free to post more.

I'd just love to see the wildlife be legitimately dangerous forever.
A mammoth should always be able to crush your bones.

[ctopolon3]

Compost bins are the root of all evil
Better Q soil > better Q trees > better Q compost bin > even better Q soil > even better Q trees

also try to place q200 bark in q100 water in cauldron and make some Q glue for new compost bin...
also u can use Exquisite Rot from high Q animals at start of the world, to make some good stuff with tannig fluid in cauldron

[jorb]

Compost bins are the root of all evil
Better Q soil > better Q trees > better Q compost bin > even better Q soil > even better Q trees

To some extent this is the intended behavior, though. I appreciate that I can settle in a low Q soil area without permanently hurting myself. I'm sure the precise mechanics can be debated.

[Forest]

Could just make it so that eating food without a table gives no fep/satiations and only energy

Ideal solution!

I hope this would be optional. You still want to gain attributes before you can even make a table. What's the first thing nearly everyone does at world start? Push INT and PER as much as possible to get started, then STR, AGI, CON, and DEX--whichever ones you need--on that character. It's nice that we can build a table in those animal dens/hidey-holes, but if you don't have one of those nearby, then you need a house, and that then means Yeomanry, and that's at least several hours.

just need to add a feast button near FEP bar:

[jordancoles]

Some good points made here. Made a note for future references. Feel free to post more.

Animal qualities in general are pretty insane to begin with

Just within 2 tiles of my base I have a q280ish bearspawn, 190ish deer and moose and 180ish mammoths
Peak mammoth node I've seen has been 450... It's just insane man

Those bones and the meat can be troughed or composted for high q feed/soil super early on and it's a shot in the arm for all other industries.
The bodies of these animals can be turned to high q ash which makes high q clay and the soil boost makes for higher q trees and boards very early on which you can then spiral into midworld

[Sevenless]

Maybe the solution here is to simply make meat/bones not compostable (game balance > realism). Farming goes up at a nice steady pace, let that be the source of long term quality soil.

Still don't like the idea of food only giving FEPs some of the time from an immersion/beginner perspective. I mean, if you wanted to make a mechanic like that maybe make it so that only food eaten on max energy gives FEPs, but still not a huge fan.

Edit: While we're on the topic. Why don't we give melee/unarmed the same quality destroying modifier that archery has? Every hit with a weapon lowers the quality of the animal to the weapon quality, every hit by hand lowers the quality to Q10. Wouldn't this act to slow down quality spiral significantly?

[Granger]

Edit: While we're on the topic. Why don't we give melee/unarmed the same quality destroying modifier that archery has? Every hit with a weapon lowers the quality of the animal to the weapon quality, every hit by hand lowers the quality to Q10. Wouldn't this act to slow down quality spiral significantly?

That would certainly be something, but effectively cap the animals you slay to (near the) weapon quality. So the ones with the best weapon (as of a lucky hq metal find) would be able to progress while everyone else would be stunted.

I think turning all the current averages [(qaxe+qblocks)/2 -> qbranch] into a root of the product(s) [(qaxe*qblock)^(1/2) -> qbranch] would be more reasonable to keep the quality at bay, at least for the first some months.

[MagicManICT]

Granger, it would be one slowdown, yes, but would a pure move to the geometric mean of the input materials be enough of a slowdown? A slowdown of early to mid game quality increases has been one of the things I've been arguing for for a while, and so I do like it, I just don't know if it would be enough. I can certainly see it being gamed around, such as with compost bins.

Certainly not going to do much for the whole feasting aspect, though, just delay the inevitable "feast at 300% with a house full of food for one character." IMO, the hunger bonuses need to be cut in half at worst, eliminated at best. Leave the penalties in for those that want to overeat. Overeating is fine if you have the food to waste.

And I think it was loftar that pointed out at the end of w9 in a summary: the top characters seem to all have about the same diet. FEP variety definitely needs to be reworked, and satiations obviously aren't doing what they're intended to do. They just seem to add a balance factor that is more work to balance than other means.