Make level 5 great again!

[Vigilance]

Hey I just had a wacky ass idea I had to crawl out of bed to post about, what if ore quality influenced smelting productivity to further reward high ql ore, and then increase the baseline qualities of layer 5 because apparently the ore ql doesn't really matter that much in the end when spiraling exists?

That would also make layer 5 gold better than layer 4 gold etc so I'd be more excited if i had ql 140 schrifterz instead of "Wow, what a waste."

[Ardennesss]

FMI, what is the main reason that you don't care about ore quality? Is it because potter's clay has elevated smelters so much?

Just remembered something else. Bring back Legacy quality scaling for trolls and you would give us a reason to go deeper again. The fact that trolls seems to have the same minimum quality (80?) on all levels is pretty upsetting, especially considering if I'm not mistaken the difficulty still scales by level. So you fight a harder troll, for the small chance that it's a higher quality than it would've been on 3-4. The highest troll we've ever mined out was on level 3.

[Lyrroth]

Most of the difference is made up with spiraling.

Right, I tend to forget about iron spiraling. Not sure what to think about it. I just added it as kind of an experiment back in Legacy, and I'm not sure if I really think it's fun or not in the end. It sounds a bit boring if it's so useful that it completely negates ore quality. Feel free to opine.

Ore spiraling make sense on end-point of the game. It could be slowed down a but anything more.

I think you've just successfully made mining on deeper levels so punishing that the community is deciding not to play your reindeer games anymore and just go towards the surface so it's easier.

Mining 1 tile and spawning 11 slimes is no where near fun and after it happens 2-3 times over a few hours you just stick to the lower levels
...
It's now in the 1.7-2 thousands

Over a few hours? I could understand over few minutes but hours is not that bad. Ofc maybe killing yourself for credo to make life easier make You softer somehow?

Most of the difference is made up with spiraling.

Right, I tend to forget about iron spiraling. Not sure what to think about it. I just added it as kind of an experiment back in Legacy, and I'm not sure if I really think it's fun or not in the end. It sounds a bit boring if it's so useful that it completely negates ore quality. Feel free to opine.

remove spiraling and make it so underground quest givers boost ore quality like above ground where they boost foraging items. this would be a good fix to spiraling and keep the q grind in the game for people that enjoy that part of the game. spiral bots too op.

You didn't put enough thought into that sir. No.

FMI, what is the main reason that you don't care about ore quality? Is it because potter's clay has elevated smelters so much?

Just remembered something else. Bring back Legacy quality scaling for trolls and you would give us a reason to go deeper again. The fact that trolls seems to have the same minimum quality (80?) on all levels is pretty upsetting, especially considering if I'm not mistaken the difficulty still scales by level. So you fight a harder troll, for the small chance that it's a higher quality than it would've been on 3-4. The highest troll we've ever mined out was on level 3.

THIS. Trolls on Lv5 should be far more difficult + far more rewarding that it is now. Also maybe buff slime killing reward on LV5 a bit. Something in that way.

[wonder-ass]

I'm having a hard time thinking of a dumber idea than removing spiraling and tying metal quality to questing.

spiraling gets abused to shit by bots. come up with a better idea then ard.

[AriZona]

Don't touch iron Q spiral: all H&H's spirit is about Q spiral, iron, crops, skills, etc.

Regarding levels and mining: i) the Q benefits could be a bit better on LVL5 and ii) differences in ore/stone/beast variations should be greater among levels.

[Granger]

Most of the difference is made up with spiraling.

Right, I tend to forget about iron spiraling. Not sure what to think about it. I just added it as kind of an experiment back in Legacy, and I'm not sure if I really think it's fun or not in the end. It sounds a bit boring if it's so useful that it completely negates ore quality. Feel free to opine.

Spiraling sounds fun at first glance, can also be fun for people who like raising numbers.
Downside is that it effectively destroys any ability to balance the game, turning each world from a fun start to people requesting a wipe as the balance (which is somewhat OK at the start of a world) completely goes out the window and down the drain as the qualities rise above sane levels.

TL;DR: Get rid of the endless spirals in favour of ones with in-build upper bounds based on the natural qualities of the world.

[Lyrroth]

Most of the difference is made up with spiraling.

Right, I tend to forget about iron spiraling. Not sure what to think about it. I just added it as kind of an experiment back in Legacy, and I'm not sure if I really think it's fun or not in the end. It sounds a bit boring if it's so useful that it completely negates ore quality. Feel free to opine.

Spiraling sounds fun at first glance, can also be fun for people who like raising numbers.
Downside is that it effectively destroys any ability to balance the game, turning each world from a fun start to people requesting a wipe as the balance (which is somewhat OK at the start of a world) completely goes out the window and down the drain as the qualities rise above sane levels.

TL;DR: Get rid of the endless spirals in favour of ones with in-build upper bounds based on the natural qualities of the world.

Then what when it stops?

[Ardennesss]

Everyone just quits and spams the forum for a world reset, obviously.

[Granger]

Then what when it stops?

I made the suggestion a while back that the bounds should be flexible so you can push them somewhat, but flexible in a way that they push back when you stop pushing. Would result in the same grind as we have now in case you want to stay at the top - but differs to current state that running away numbers wouldn't exist anymore, thus these wouldn't fuck up any attempts on game balancing. Plus latecomers could reach the top levels in case they work hard enough so we would get rid of the main reason for the 'wipe now' topic.

Downside would be that numbers in your character sheet would reduce at times you're not that busy ingame and some loud superficial people here stated that they are unable to stomach that.

[Lyrroth]

Then what when it stops?

I made the suggestion a while back that the bounds should be flexible so you can push them somewhat, but flexible in a way that they push back when you stop pushing. Would result in the same grind as we have now in case you want to stay at the top - but differs to current state that running away numbers wouldn't exist anymore, thus these wouldn't fuck up any attempts on game balancing. Plus latecomers could reach the top levels in case they work hard enough so we would get rid of the main reason for the 'wipe now' topic.

Downside would be that numbers in your character sheet would reduce at times you're not that busy ingame and some loud superficial people here stated that they are unable to stomach that.

Because decay is unfun and with somewhat "permanent" world, with a player base somewhere 1000 (since I believe jorbtar dont have to deal with only 200~), would deplet non-regenerating resources eventually so wipe would be just post-poned in longer time but still un-avoidable unless some bigger change is made, rendering decaying more non-fun.

But I don't have a better solution so I don't see myself in a position to argue against, with You.