Satiations/Hunger Make Late Game Rebuilding Unpossibru

[dageir]

The Resource sinks could be the Death of the players through PvP or PvE.

as it stands im pretty sure if in 3 months i die im just straight up quitting before i spend an identical amount of time rebuilding my character even though by all means it should be faster, but im gated by arbitray time locks.

If we hit the soft cap (significant diminishing Returns) pretty fast, losing a character will not hurt so much since you can bring a New one up very fast at least if you have a 3 month old base.

[Vigilance]

If we hit the soft cap (significant diminishing Returns) pretty fast, losing a character will not hurt so much since you can bring a New one up very fast at least if you have a 3 month old base.

something tells me you actually arent seeing the food with static satiations that will literally chunk you down to half efficiency within at VERY MOST 8 items or statistically 2.5~~ items

those satiations dont scale my lad

and haven & drinks will probably only hit certain satiations so it is just gonna be best to mass whatever is easiest to reduce.

[dageir]

So first you complain about it will take too much time to rebuild and then you say it is not so bad since you can cheese some mechanics? Not sure I follow.

[Grable]

Aren't stat caps desirable? I mean, I don't think they are, but I've heard it claimed.

What changes would you like to see? Should eating be unlimited?

The fundamental reason why I'd like to see some sort of limitations on eating are...

• I don't think it's healthy if you feel that you have to grind all the time, and that time not spent grinding is time lost. This was at times a very real problem in Salem, and arguably it's a problem with quests here as they currently stand.
• I'd like to encourage/enforce some level of variance in the diet, so that it's not merely about spamming one type of thing.

I was always for stat caps, but I get that people want endless progression. I think the idea of food efficiency dropping as your stats get higher is a good idea. This means people can still grind for better stats, albeit it will be much more work after certain points. This will make it easier for new people to catch up as well. To add: I think there still needs to be a way to eat food FEPlessly, just for the means of restoring energy. It's hard to have a hard working miner and also keeping his hunger level at a decent level to gain stats.

I think the satiation idea is ok, but needs some balancing and less rng. Use that as the short term limiter on how much people can eat and for diet variance.

[Fostik]

Partially i agree with idea that stat raising must be limited somehow, but no sure that this is the right way.
Why symbel on tables are useless, but breaks anyway? Including the fact that tables is not a part of game mechanics for you if you have top stats.
What is the sense of bonfires now if only fresh twin in company of high level players will get some bonus?
What's the sense of the hunger if questing will remove it anyway?
What's the sense of salt as local resource, when it's nerfed so hard?

I think this questions must be reworked, because yeah, i understand devs - they limited level rising, but what the heck i need shitlot of str for buffed mining hardness, i need tonns of int for this 40 mental weight curios, i feel really bad in this game instead of just understanding that i need to wait or do something to get to the next step of character developing

IMO we must face this limiting problems on 150-200 fep, because it will allow us dig mineholes better, fight animals with normal cooldowns and study all curios presented in the game(because now 80% of them is useless with 40 weight). Want better stats - no probs go fuck with trees and eat without tables.

[ErdTod]

The "problem" with hunger and satiations is that people are competing, i.e. there are powerplayers whose goal is not to play game, but to have best stats on the server, and that somewhat forces others to try to catch up, otherwise they can suffer from the free PvP of the game. As for now, reducing hunger via quests to stay in 300% is obligatory for having a chance in the race. Also, you are somewhat luck-based because of chance for satiations - you might eat 1 sosig and you're at 60%, or you can be lucky to eat 10 of them and still be good. In my opinion, the correct course of actions would be limiting possibilities for power-play, since it's not fun for the majority of playerbase, who'd like to enjoy content of the game, and not to massive botting, gluttoning etc. just to be top 1 and make forum posts of how epically they rekt some makeshift fence sprucecap base.

- The 300% bonus is unhealthy for the game IMO. I suggest making it a plain 100%, but as a global satiation. I.e. for 1 in-game day you reduce your global hunger for X%, but once it reaches 100% - you can't eat at all. The % doesn't affect the efficiency of foods, just limits the amount of food you can eat per day.
- Satiations are OK mechanic, promoting variety. But it's a bit frustrating that it's luck-based. You cook yourself a great meal, of 5 different dishes 3 pieces of each, and then get satiated from just 1 piece. Not os fun. Instead, I suggest returning to how it previously was: food satiates it's category with 100% chance, but for lower amounts. So you can plan out your development. But satiations revert not when three of them are at 50%, but as it is now - over time, though I'd make the timer slower - so it takes more time for them to recover.
- In addition, removing character progression rewards from quests, replacing them with nice bonuses that would still be worth the attention, would somewhat even-out the progression of entire server.

Such changes will limit the maximum progression speed, making it somewhat even for all the players, disregarding if they are no-lifing power-playing, or just doing some few hours per day, which is usually healthy for MMOs.

However, though, those who are ahead will remain ahead. If you get killed, you will still be behind those who play longer, and without some sort of progression cap it'll be impossible to catch up. But pls don't do caps. That creates "a wall" in the game, making no sense in an ever-lasting world, which is an eventual goal, if I understand correctly.

[Avu]

How I would like the system to be going forward.

1. Remove hunger and set the base value at 150%, reasons been presented all over, gets rid of working alts, solving the whole quest hunger mega imbalance
2. Make satiations more predictable and generally less punishing for some stuff looking at you sausage and meat. For predictability perhaps have a set number of foods of that category that you can eat before dropping 20%, then same amount of food for dropping another 20% and so on. Good rule of thumb is people enjoy RNG when it gives them positive bonuses but despise it when it gives penalties.
3. Implement a catch up mechanic for dead characters. Have it activate with numen or whatever.

optional but not really required
3.a. Implement a catch up mechanic for alts I mean new players. (perhaps as a function of world uptime, on verified accounts, with long subscriptions, only new accounts)

4. Limit amount of quests per week (regular, leave credos alone they're too fucked as it is). Reduce the RNG in rewards.
5. Make roads real roads.

[Sevenless]

How I would like the system to be going forward.

1. Remove hunger and set the base value at 150%, reasons been presented all over, gets rid of working alts, solving the whole quest hunger mega imbalance
2. Make satiations more predictable and generally less punishing for some stuff looking at you sausage and meat. For predictability perhaps have a set number of foods of that category that you can eat before dropping 20%, then same amount of food for dropping another 20% and so on. Good rule of thumb is people enjoy RNG when it gives them positive bonuses but despise it when it gives penalties.
3. Implement a catch up mechanic for dead characters. Have it activate with numen or whatever.

optional but not really required
3.a. Implement a catch up mechanic for alts I mean new players. (perhaps as a function of world uptime, on verified accounts, with long subscriptions, only new accounts)

4. Limit amount of quests per week (regular, leave credos alone they're too fucked as it is). Reduce the RNG in rewards.
5. Make roads real roads.

I'm inclined to agree that a magical catch up mechanic is required lategame to give people a proper chance in engaging late game pvp. As much as mitigation through quality/scaling mechanics exists, death once means you're at a permenant if not theoretically massive disadvantage. I'm very worried about how this will impact the beginner experience since it would blow progression out of the water. But this applies to new players, not just ones that have died. Someone who starts late is in the exact same position as someone who dies, just without numen. If they're a pvper, they're at a permanent disadvantage until world end.

Maybe some ritual requiring endgame resources that speeds up development up to some kind of metric about world averages for fighters? How to balance that concept is miles beyond me.

[SnuggleSnail]

Aren't stat caps desirable? I mean, I don't think they are, but I've heard it claimed.

What changes would you like to see? Should eating be unlimited?

The fundamental reason why I'd like to see some sort of limitations on eating are...

• I don't think it's healthy if you feel that you have to grind all the time, and that time not spent grinding is time lost. This was at times a very real problem in Salem, and arguably it's a problem with quests here as they currently stand.
• I'd like to encourage/enforce some level of variance in the diet, so that it's not merely about spamming one type of thing.

Satiations are having the opposite effect. lmao if you're feasting when you're not ravenous you're wasting FEPs. You gotta quest EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. or you'll be behind in attributes. You gotta keep your satiations below 100% AT. ALL. TIMES. but you can't get a negative satiation tick down twice, or you're wasting FEPs.

It's gone from spam eating/questing for 8 hours over the weekend to you gotta do shit every fucking hour every fucking day or you get behind, except unlike before, you can't wait 3 months when quality goes up to and just grind twice as hard as everybody else for 1 month to catch up. Also, people aren't going to be producing that much less food than before, they're just gonna raise 10 characters at once because you literally can't catch back up on attributes anymore if you die really late. I genuinely hate this time gated system, where the time gates are so fucking small and you need to hit all/most of them. I've never been so jealous of that satiation bot before. I'd rather manually make barrels of pepper than manually feast this system, even though it requires literally 1/100th the food of previous worlds.

If you're going to make it Haven and Dailyquests, at least make the daily quests a once daily thing, instead of once an hour or less.

get rid of hunger

This is an absolutely garbage idea, too. If questing is the main mode of LP generation(and it will be), and attributes are cheap to get, but time gated, hunger is literally the only thing stopping people from having like 50 spare characters with top tier attributes. Just get rid of satiations, honestly. Nobody likes them. They make the game SO MUCH LESS FUN. Nobody to whom they're relevant actually likes them. If you don't want people to pick 5 foods and just eat those, just make more than 5 foods good. I already know which 7 foods I'll be eating all world btw, and I doubt they'll change until qualitites get in the thousands

[jordancoles]

Aren't stat caps desirable? I mean, I don't think they are, but I've heard it claimed.

What changes would you like to see? Should eating be unlimited?

The fundamental reason why I'd like to see some sort of limitations on eating are...

• I don't think it's healthy if you feel that you have to grind all the time, and that time not spent grinding is time lost. This was at times a very real problem in Salem, and arguably it's a problem with quests here as they currently stand.
• I'd like to encourage/enforce some level of variance in the diet, so that it's not merely about spamming one type of thing.

Variance in diet is fine, but just now I ate 4 pieces of fish and I'm at 68% satiation for fish. I didn't even get 1 stat gain...

Quests do make you feel that you need to be constantly grinding, and I would also say that as the world goes on, that feeling is spread and amplified across the board. The problem is that not only do you feel rushed to gain FEPs, you also feel limited by the hunger and satiation bar, and you begin to feel hopeless when comparing yourself to those who have been at it for much longer than you have. This game is a like having a second job if you want to take it seriously, and demotivation towards your end goals is enough to make people throw up their hands and just say 'fuck it'

I liked stats caps, but not at a max of 230 or whatever. Stat caps at 1000 with an additional 1000 in gear bonuses was a good number for last world IMO, idk how comparable it is now, but it's still a decent marker to set before things get totally insane again. The vast majority will never reach that cap, but it's nice to have one in place.