Better burial/state burial without rage

[Lyrroth]

Killing non-rage players is pretty difficult and almost impossible if the defender has very low stats compared to the attacker(s).

If its impossible then why is everybody so opposed to this suggestion?

its highly unlikely to happen but it is very much possible and suggestion is bad because rage or not, shouldnt there be a much difference in getting special bonus after death

[Kaios]

Indeed, the game is risk and reward. If you don't want to risk your character for these "credo's that are not really optional", then you simply don't deserve them. Haven and Hearth is not, and will never be, a game that spoonfeeds people. By not taking these risks, you yourself would essentially be "killing your characters" without killing them. At least in the sense of losing the chance at long term progression bonuses through the Credo system by opting into taking no risks in the game.

If you don't want to take risks after a certain point, I again reiterate my previous point of making foraging / hunting alts with the sole purpose of leaving the walls so your "main" can cower behind the walls.

This also doesn't address the issue of how meaningless rage would become. Let's say this does get implemented, how would this benefit rage characters? How would it make death meaningful? If anything, if you want to make death not a big deal for non-rage characters you might as well just remove permadeath entirely at this point and just turn this into a full-loot system.

In a game that has one of it's most integral parts being focused on death being meaningful, this takes away in my opinion, one of the more unique things of Haven and Hearth.

Specifically on what I bolded, one of the main reasons to get Rage and begin fighting is to hamper and destroy your kingdoms enemies. If the kingdom can simply rebuild because their non-rage characters get 90% of their shit back, "Fighter characters" no longer have a "reward" in that risk-reward system. Who would bother risking a character for most likely shitty loot and not even making a real dent on the character they kill, IF they even manage to kill someone without rage.

To be honest you make so many good points in this thread and I almost agreed with all of them but then I look at the player population which is half of what it was maintaining not so long ago and I feel may be dwindling further. I then realize most players don't actually take this game as seriously as you imply they should and that likely the player population started dwindling around the same time seamarks were added and bigger factions had more reason to travel around in their knarrs fucking dudes up. Players kind of dislike when you take away their chance to be meaningful.

[Avu]

Killing non-rage players is pretty difficult and almost impossible if the defender has very low stats compared to the attacker(s).

If its impossible then why is everybody so opposed to this suggestion?

its highly unlikely to happen but it is very much possible and suggestion is bad because rage or not, shouldnt there be a much difference in getting special bonus after death

I know of four recent deaths in the realm I am in and all 4 did not have rage. At least 2 had decent stats 1 was a naked construction alt, the other I have no clue other than none had rage. Btw that is all the pvp encounters that I know of. That is 100% kill rate on non rage characters, there were none that survided with just their shit stolen. You all who say it is highly unlikely either haven't met the right guys to kill you yet and just speak from theory or are those raider guys and are full of shit trying to keep your broken system afloat.

If it is indeed supposed to be highly unlikely I have news for you that is not how it works.

[Lyrroth]

If it is indeed supposed to be highly unlikely I have news for you that is not how it works.

AD chased me few times and i was never on the verge of dying. losing my shit and a lot of HP but never even getting very close to dying so either you all doing something wrong or you just let them somehow finish you off. its hard to debate without video of somekind to discuss this.i never leave my base without healing to min 80% HHP tbh

[Kaios]

That just sounds like you've been downed quickly rather than put up a fight. If a guy with a moderate amount of armor (not great, but not terrible either) gets cleaved for 300+ SHP damage that's roughly 200 HHP damage and if they get knocked out from that hit that's approximately another 30 HHP damage.

230 HHP damage on a player with 200 HHP or less = ???

[Avu]

If it is indeed supposed to be highly unlikely I have news for you that is not how it works.

AD chased me few times and i was never on the verge of dying. losing my shit and a lot of HP but never even getting very close to dying so either you all doing something wrong or you just let them somehow finish you off. its hard to debate without video of somekind to discuss this.i never leave my base without healing to min 80% HHP tbh

Were you walking alone at night? Did you wear a short dress? Did you smile or talk to the guys before they raped you? Sounds like a lot of bullshit victim blaming. Maybe those guys that died asked for it? Eh?

[loleznub]

To be honest you make so many good points in this thread and I almost agreed with all of them but then I look at the player population which is half of what it was maintaining not so long ago and I feel may be dwindling further. I then realize most players don't actually take this game as seriously as you imply they should and that likely the player population started dwindling around the same time seamarks were added and bigger factions had more reason to travel around in their knarrs fucking dudes up. Players kind of dislike when you take away their chance to be meaningful.

Historically speaking, Haven and Hearth has always had this problem of a small population. Its hardcore nature does not cater to the millennials / generation X age group very well due to the instant gratification the majority of these people grew up on. Simply put, Haven is not the game for everyone as it is very niche. I would not disagree that removing the harshness of death would likely attract a larger playerbase that sticks around, but in doing so would make the game more akin to a reskinned game of minecraft than what Haven has always been.

As for the bolding above, I believe these two points are intertwined.

Here's me hitting a freshly spawned alt for 700 damage.

I even gave it enough armor for 65/50, which is likely what noobs are running at least.

It looks to be difficult to kill a non rage character without them being below 80% or so HHP??

[Avu]

Unless there is a bug some are exploiting. Wouldn't be the first time.

[wonder-ass]

i wouldnt mind a no death penalty, gear is actually hard to get and important to maintain type of system. not sure how it would work tho i can imagine a lot of zergs.

[Kaios]

Here's me hitting a freshly spawned alt for 700 damage.

I even gave it enough armor for 65/50, which is likely what noobs are running at least.

It looks to be difficult to kill a non rage character without them being below 80% or so HHP??

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLafT1kKK4m_PmEFctq-pH735lQx5y5jUB

I did testing on that too a long time ago and really I don’t see the point one would try and make with that. You are attempting to test in a controlled scenario on a character with little to no investment. The reason you do so little HHP damage is because the grievous damage scales with the total possible HHP rather than your current total HHP. Yeah, you’re right, a player that would stand around for the initial KO might survive the encounter but why on God’s green earth do you feel like that is even remotely good advice to give any player. You really tell your gatherers and hunters when they go out, “hey don’t worry about all that surv gear bro just go out with 1 SHP and full HHP and you’ll never lose your character!!”

Holy fucking cannoli the pvp players are so at odds with the suggestions they make, the advice they give and what they actually want out of pvp that it blows my mind.