Require Sieging to Destroy Knarr Dock

[Kaios]

Docks give you an ability to punch up. You really have to piss someone off if they started griefing your docks and roads. Its not done that often.
Mechanics that make you want to be not a total asshole are a good thing.

Punch up how? You can't just say that and not explain what you mean. Knarr docks are way less necessary now that cross-continent travel is possible through charter stones. I'm pretty sure players would do these things regardless of anyone pissing them off or not, I just think the time it takes to destroy such objects should be balanced with their cost so if a dude wants to take 40 minutes or whatever bashing some expensive thing that's cool at least I know they had to spend a significant amount of time doing that.

Without docks actions of the strong will go without any retaliation.

lmao wtf are you talking about

[wonder-ass]

RIP 25+ knarrs haHA.

+1 it being hand bash able is retarded.

[azrid]

You really have to piss someone off if they started griefing your docks and roads. Its not done that often.
Mechanics that make you want to be not a total asshole are a good thing.

Knarr docks are way less necessary now that cross-continent travel is possible through charter stones. I'm pretty sure players would do these things regardless of anyone pissing them off or not, I just think the time it takes to destroy such objects should be balanced with their cost so if a dude wants to take 40 minutes or whatever bashing some expensive thing that's cool at least I know they had to spend a significant amount of time doing that.

Threat of mutual dock destruction is good enough balance. The possibility of such actions creates a more realistic political climate where you actually have to interact with your opponent side.

Punch up how? You can't just say that and not explain what you mean.

Without docks actions of the strong will go without any retaliation.

lmao wtf are you talking about

If you shit on some noob just cuz they can come and bash your dock draining a little resource as retaliation. Pretty simple.

On top of all this its hard to create a siege system that isn't too punishing.
The perfect solution is to change siege like permadeath was changed.
Like hearthlings get wounds villages would get damage done to important infrastructure.
This is the only way forward that doesn't put us into an infinite development loop of siege being too easy or too hard.

[Kaios]

You're suggesting an entirely new dynamic then and it has nothing to do with balancing docks reasonably right now, obviously none of what you're saying is going to take place on this world so what is the relevance of it? You didn't address my point about destroying something requiring as much effort as it took to create which is still pretty important towards what you are suggesting anyways, I don't care if you can break something costly but it shouldn't be any easier than the effort or time spent on creating it.

If you shit on some noob just cuz they can come and bash your dock draining a little resource as retaliation. Pretty simple.

First they have to have the strength to do that and second if it's too easy then any vandal alt can come along and do it and you can't really do anything to prevent that, is that what you are suggesting? It would just be something restricted to top players like everything else.

[azrid]

A "new" dynamic that already exists in the form of docks. I don't like the idea being destroyed because some people are too lazy to cough up some tar.
Tar also gains more value and more noobs get to sell tarsticks/tar. We desperately need more trade articles for new players.

You didn't address my point about destroying something requiring as much effort as it took to create

Quality of life improving infrastructure that has to be built outside should be easier to destroy than it is to build. People risk their resources to gain a nice bonus to their playstyle. This is a common method used in 2 really good pvp games like runescape and albion.

First they have to have the strength to do that and second if it's too easy then any vandal alt can come along and do it and you can't really do anything to prevent that, is that what you are suggesting? It would just be something restricted to top players like everything else.

Its pretty well balanced right now. A fresh character can't do it. You need a sledgehammer and a reasonable amount of str.
Small groups can do it so its not restricted to top dogs.

If people have problems with griefing in game its most likely someone hates them or their group for something they did. It should push the group to try to resolve the issue not ask for the game mechanics to change. Especially when its a valuable mechanic like this.

[Kaios]

Man you're trying so hard to justify a bad mechanic because it might annoy someone, that is quite possibly the dumbest position to argue from that I have ever seen someone try on this forum. A valuable mechanic? Griefing is a valuable mechanic, okay.

You know full well that if someone were to smash your dock the tar is not the issue for you, the issue is if someone happened to take a knarr out on a long trip and while they are gone the dock gets smashed meaning they have to now travel all the way back with the knarr from where ever they happen to be. I am absolutely positive that if the situation were reversed you would not like a mechanic such as this because not only does it make absolutely no sense at all in the context of a group wanting to kill players outside for them to break something which prevents those players from being far from their village to be killed which you STILL never bothered to address either it would just make travel more difficult than it already is giving you even more reason to complain about it.

Like I said, for a big faction group this mechanic would change absolutely nothing all you're arguing for is a reason to go around griefing expensive structures because it makes your little peepee erect.

[azrid]

I defended this last world too I am not really trying hard. Mostly just giving my thoughts from back then.

[Astarisk]

I defended this last world too I am not really trying hard. Mostly just giving my thoughts from back then.

A "new" dynamic that already exists in the form of docks. I don't like the idea being destroyed because some people are too lazy to cough up some tar.
Tar also gains more value and more noobs get to sell tarsticks/tar. We desperately need more trade articles for new players.

Tar doesn't gain value, any faction who is involved at all in anvil spiralling has more tar than they can reasonably use. We've started storing it in cisterns! We have thousands of liters of it. I'm in no way, shape, or form desperate enough to trade for tar. Its not a valuable resource to me at all and I would never personally buy it. Not to mention the set up needed to get a good amount of tar is beyond that of a noobs level, especially if I'm to use that tar they trade to make knarrs. That means quality now factors into the usefulness of it all, which means there is definitely no way I'd buy it off a noob.

Its pretty well balanced right now. A fresh character can't do it. You need a sledgehammer and a reasonable amount of strength.
Small groups can do it so its not restricted to top dogs.

The strength requirement to bash a dock is null to me. I could literally spawn an alt right now and by the end of the day that alt will have more than enough strength to bash the dock and more than enough LP to get vandalism. That's the life of being in a top tier group. Stuff like that is meaningless. Once you have the materials, know how the systems work, and have everything at your disposal and know what to do pumping out that much strength is no trouble at all. People seem to fail to understand the power gap between an average player / group and a top one. It is much more massive than you think.

Threat of mutual dock destruction is good enough balance. The possibility of such actions creates a more realistic political climate where you actually have to interact with your opponent side.

If the game has to rely on the threat of mutual dock destruction for political purposes then the game is indeed in dire shape. There's nothing good politically about it at all. Its either there or gone, you aren't warned about its destruction, the ease of which to pull off the destruction is high. It takes almost no effort for that to happen.

[boreial]

Ok but why is the realism argument appropriate for some things and not others, it's a game and if something detracts from the overall fun why would you include it for the sake of realism. The game causing tedium towards players is a large reason why players quit the game so you think players also generating a level of tedium towards others will benefit the game in the long-term?

Docks give you an ability to punch up. You really have to piss someone off if they started griefing your docks and roads. Its not done that often.
Mechanics that make you want to be not a total asshole are a good thing. Without docks actions of the strong will go without any retaliation.

people that say no are of the mindset that griefers need to grief.

people that say yes are carebear babies that want to live in a totally safe world

Tell me azrid, if you were given the choice of living only in:
The most dangerous country to live in the world is Brazil , which performed the worst on both the global ranking and the female global ranking. A staggering 56% of respondents rated their personal safety negatively.- According to Forbes

or

The 2018 study was recently released showing the most peaceful countries in the world. At the top of this list is Iceland. - according to http://worldpopulationreview.com

which would you choose??

[azrid]

Tar doesn't gain value

I disagree.

There's nothing good politically about it at all.

It involves the noobs more.
They can be more useful to many players because tar can be a trade article now.
On the flipside they can fight back by causing non lethal damage to a village.
Nidbanes don't really do anything anymore ever since the big bois cried enough on the forums. I can see this is happening again with knarr docks.