token sinks

[mvgulik]

Hopefully the one we had before eating nerfs killed demand for food and gardening pots made foraging irrelevant and tokens made trade pay2win.

Would than not also require that those eating nerfs are taken out of the trading equation ?

The question was not really what trading system one would like, but how one thinks it would play out in the currently game-setup ... but without tokens in the mix.
(The other values for the token dial would be: Up in perceived in-game value, and down in perceived in-game value)

[pppp]

2. I don't care what others use the money for, the problem is that what if I don't want to buy tokens to get a q60 shovel? What if I want to play the game to get something to buy these items. If tokens are all that people want, I cannot buy anything without them.

100th time we've had this discussion

This
The problem is not in tokens but in lacking demand for items that new players can make. That's what we need to improve.

Suppose tokens where eliminated overnight for in-game trading.
What kind of in-game trading system do you think would come into play ?

Hopefully the one we had before eating nerfs killed demand for food and gardening pots made foraging irrelevant and tokens made trade pay2win.

Would than not also require that those eating nerfs are taken out of the trading equation ?

Yeah, backtracking food nerf is not a good idea.

The problem here is quantity to quality conversion. If we allow that conversion we are going to have problems with escaping qualities. If we nerf exchange ratio (so more quantity is needed for meaningful quality increase) we increase level of grind and encourage bots. If we disallow the conversion, new players have little they can offer to more developed players. (applies to food, metal, W10 clay) (metal quantity to quality is still working).
We should search for merchandise that can not be easily botted, yet it can be easily acquired by new players and is in high demand by developed players. It's going to be a tough challenge to find one.

[Headchef]

You guys are so incredibly biased.

Why are you arrogant enough to feel like new people are entitled to being able to come up with payment?

If you want someone else their stuff for some reason, perhaps because you don't like playing the game yourself to get items, then it's entirely fine that you get ripped off plus that you have a hard time getting trading goods because let's be real here if you're so desperate to buy items you're probably rubbing sticks in the forest. And it's fine to be at that stage but why be so greedy and want all these things but don't play the game to get it.

Trade is not important for game, it is incidental occurrence and it's great for both parties involved when they can reach an agreement. But for Devs to artificially focus on giving shitters something to trade is very bad selfish reasoning.

Hope Devs understand this so they can also dismiss all these people suggesting garbage that basically reward them for existing such as meteor fragment garbage idea and things along those lines.

And anyone who doesn't seem to process that food satiation had a very direct relation to factions not being interested in noob garbage food is even more clueless because no matter what other shit you change, if food system is same then it's not relevant.

[Zentetsuken]

Trade is not important for game

Besides the fact that this rage-paragraph was incredibly difficult to read, I had to stop right here.

Trade has always been a big, important part of the game. There have been "trading centers" similar to modern day CF in every single world since w2 I believe. Entire alliances, wars, relationships and economies have revolved around trade every single world. Maybe you just haven't been around for long enough to understand this.

Tokens definitely need a sink or some kind of nerf to remove them as the main trading currency. However, this should come alongside a change to other goods, like food, which have slowly crept their way out of the desirable trading good category due to game development and changes.

[Aceb]

2. I don't care what others use the money for, the problem is that what if I don't want to buy tokens to get a q60 shovel? What if I want to play the game to get something to buy these items. If tokens are all that people want, I cannot buy anything without them.

Trade is not important for game

Both things are big exaggeration in two different directions of the same thing.

New players can offer materials for spiraling.
Stop having blueberries in your eyes.

Both W10 and early-mid W11 I traded a lot, earned few tokens without big effort. Tokens are the only "stable" currency that allows mostly trade on HIGHER LEVEL. What is HIGHER LEVEL? TOP QUALITY STUFF. Not some puny 60q blueberry, shovel or your worthless butt that anybody will care to travel continents for. On the other hand, trading for best anvil in the game for a token or two, where somebody will even willingly deliver it You. This is what means to be strong and on top, no?

In legacy that happened as well but on much lower scale as there was no stable currency that is token (not counting pearls/topq water, anything else I think was irrevelant on top trade in legacy), You still keep messing small trade (blueberries in legacy) with a big trade. DO YOU EVEN TRADE ON HIGHER LEVELS?


Even now, few merchants that I traded with during W10, are saddened that they have money / tokens for trade but nobody does it. Nobody plays anymore, but sure, since W10, complains and crying on forum is as strong as ever.

You're getting boring more and more with each day.

edit [and typos]: oh maybe you cry you cant trade cupboard of blueberries for top quality flax seeds?

[Headchef]

Try to answer the rest with logic rather than sentiment and whether you think it's "rage" lol why do you feel everyone deserves to generate currency to trade for better shit?

Legacy trade was better than current supermarket model visitor gate barter stand bullshit.

And with saying "it's not important" I mean the Devs should just not facilitate generation of tradable goods for sake of giving noobs allowance money or something.

They're realistically never going to compete with factions anyway so it's better they live from their own work rather than making those people market coin slaves who still accomplish nothing aside of being some customer. But yeah sandbox feel free to enslave yourself to currency but I view it that the sense of accomplishment is far greater when people made it on their own.

Token sink maybe sounds fun but you will just get another form of rwt in return because there is nothing else in-game noobs could provide.

[Granger]

The eating nerfs are trying to address the issues caused by characters being the sum of all their actions, likely with the intention to address the issues with the ever growing gap between different groups of characters.

Which certainly is doomed to fail in one regard (limiting character growth) or the other (allowing to catch up) as it doesn't solve the root cause but only treats the symptoms... likely causing additional new side effects. Basically the approach so far has wrapped the game mechanics (when it comes to character progression) in layers of bandages so thick that it is way beyond looking like a mummy.

Would be no problem to let characters eat more then now (even the unlimited legacy levels) when the gains from that would only be temporary...

[pppp]

Would be no problem to let characters eat more then now (even the unlimited legacy levels) when the gains from that would only be temporary...

That's how one encourages botted food....

why do you feel everyone deserves to generate currency to trade for better shit?
[...]
They're realistically never going to compete with factions anyway so it's better they live from their own work rather than making those people market coin slaves who still accomplish nothing aside of being some customer. But yeah sandbox feel free to enslave yourself to currency but I view it that the sense of accomplishment is far greater when people made it on their own.

Single player H&H when ?

all these people suggesting garbage that basically reward them for existing

Token sink maybe sounds fun but you will just get another form of rwt in return because there is nothing else in-game noobs could provide.

Did you just say you are entitled to newb tokens because you just exist ?

[shubla]

All things in your list are nonsensical.

Lol, copycat.

How would having less tokens inside the game stop traders(any level) from asking only tokens in there shops ?

Suppose tokens where eliminated overnight for in-game trading.
What kind of in-game trading system do you think would come into play ?
(if any, as it might just as well keel over)

If tokens were removed from game people wouldn't buy them anymore, trust me.

[Headchef]

Did you just say you are entitled to newb tokens because you just exist ?

Well no, not at all.
When people exist who are willing to give it for certain thing and I agree then why not.
I just mean there is 0 logic in making valuable things appear randomly among the map for the sake of giving people credit to spend at markets because if you are not in a faction then you most likely have no real competition so you might aswell play by your own achievements instead of feeling this urge to buy stuf you can't maintain the quality of.

And then the argument is like atleast it will raise the q and blabla but why not use the game mechanics to strengthen your own things rather than be a consumer of someone else their shit, it will not make a significant difference to your own power anyway. The only argument is you could beat another noob...