Please balance "Raw Hide!"

[Glorthan]

Maybe you guys play some dota or games like that, so you may know that "stun" is probably one of the strongest croud control effect.

I kind of agree that it could have less aggressive use, f.e. if you get hit while stunned it dismounts you and you can move normally. Edit: it appears this has changed for the better since I last used it offensively a few worlds ago then.

But horses as meta was terrible and everyone (involved in pvp) hated it. The original higher exp cost also made escaping multiple riders very hard unless you had buckets of exp stored, and was bad.

[kmarad]

I kind of agree that it could have less aggressive use, f.e. if you get hit while stunned it dismounts you and you can move normally.

But horses as meta was terrible and everyone (involved in pvp) hated it. The original higher exp cost also made escaping multiple riders very hard unless you had buckets of exp stored, and was bad.

Just tested it, and apparently attacking someone on a startled horse breaks the "stun". It doesn't dismount though. It's just that the horse and the character aren't blocked anymore.
So it's more like a "sleep" on a big area. Which isn't as broken as a stun, but still way too powerful for the cost imho.

I think that it should be 1500 / 2000K experience, and be a smaller area "dismount".
Ideal imho would be to have the experience cost proportional to the number of riders dismounted.
Or maybe a flat 500 but you can only target one horse from afar, and just dismount the rider (with the horse going away).

[ChildhoodObesity]

So yea, there are some noobs, like me, that shouldn't be able to post here.
And then there are the pvp experts - aka manipulating abusers - that just enjoy this staying like this, because it helps quite a lot ruining noobs who think that horses are useful to escape fights (when actually being on a horse will just get them killed more easily).

No one uses raw hide to fuck up noobs lol. You realize that if raw hide wasn't a thing no one would leave their walls without a horse because if you encounter someone on a horse they are going to shit on you and you can't even run away? Also a noob wouldn't even be able to dismount the attacker on the horse because of the strength requirement. Also without raw hide do you really think a noob can escape a pvper on a horse? PVPers are in top factions with the highest industry, good luck escaping with a shitty horse compared to their pro horse. Raw hide is the best defense for literally anyone

[Audiosmurf]

So yea, there are some noobs, like me, that shouldn't be able to post here.
And then there are the pvp experts - aka manipulating abusers - that just enjoy this staying like this, because it helps quite a lot ruining noobs who think that horses are useful to escape fights (when actually being on a horse will just get them killed more easily).

No one uses raw hide to fuck up noobs lol. You realize that if raw hide wasn't a thing no one would leave their walls without a horse because if you encounter someone on a horse they are going to shit on you and you can't even run away? Also a noob wouldn't even be able to dismount the attacker on the horse because of the strength requirement. Also without raw hide do you really think a noob can escape a pvper on a horse? PVPers are in top factions with the highest industry, good luck escaping with a shitty horse compared to their pro horse. Raw hide is the best defense for literally anyone

True as that may be, it's pretty obviously a band-aid solution and calling for it to be looked at is justified.

[kmarad]

...

Whatever the transport, a pvp expert will always have the upper hand on a noob.
Big boats quality affect speed, beverages do as well...

Then the only relatively balanced mean of transport, because q doesn't matter, would be the kicksleds, but what they lack in speed they make up with combat abilities: established player probably use fighting bots to sit in the sled and punch nearest enemy, combine that with the numbers and it can probably be pretty nasty.

So certainly Raw hide! can be used by a person on foot to escape riders. But it can also be used by a person on foot to attack riders trying to save their skin.
And in both cases it's broken imho, which doesn't make it balanced overall, it just ruins cavalry.

If the thing is all about helping people on foot escape riders, then maybe increase "dismount" range a little bit, add a 1sec stun on dismount, and remove the strength condition ?

I don't really have a proper solution to balance all of this. It is just clear that raw hide! is way too powerful for its cost. That's an interesting topic though.

[Fostik]

Threads where people that don't pvp try to suggest pvp changes should be insta-locked tbh.

There are always two parties of players: pvp'ers and non-nvp'ers: the people who want to fight and people who dont
And if your request will be fulfilled in any chance - it will allow you push requests that will make you stronger or let you kill people easier, rather than just ballance the game to make game playable for both parties.
So, thank you, we've heard your opinion, but I'm still beileve that wise developer will never heed on that.

[AntiBlitz]

I kind of agree that it could have less aggressive use, f.e. if you get hit while stunned it dismounts you and you can move normally.

But horses as meta was terrible and everyone (involved in pvp) hated it. The original higher exp cost also made escaping multiple riders very hard unless you had buckets of exp stored, and was bad.

Just tested it, and apparently attacking someone on a startled horse breaks the "stun". It doesn't dismount though. It's just that the horse and the character aren't blocked anymore.
So it's more like a "sleep" on a big area. Which isn't as broken as a stun, but still way too powerful for the cost imho.

I think that it should be 1500 / 2000K experience, and be a smaller area "dismount".
Ideal imho would be to have the experience cost proportional to the number of riders dismounted.
Or maybe a flat 500 but you can only target one horse from afar, and just dismount the rider (with the horse going away).

the moment this guy gets dunked by someone riding a horse in front of him, and dismounting from it, will be the day he is begging for a bigger radius to raw hide people(this already happens off screen). The fucking cost of it is completely irrelevant, anyone worth their salt in pvp, has enough to raw hide someone anyways, so making it 2k just makes it worse for sprucecaps who then can only use it like one time, and still get rode up on and die lol. Your logic is flawed man, just admit it, you literally had to "test" shit like 4 posts back which perpetuates what others have pointed out, your experience in the subject. Just let this die.

[noindyfikator]

To everyone who wants to know why this topic is there:

Please read 4th post in this thread. No more to add..

the moment this guy gets dunked by someone riding a horse in front of him, and dismounting from it, will be the day he is begging for a bigger radius to raw hide people(this already happens off screen). The fucking cost of it is completely irrelevant, anyone worth their salt in pvp, has enough to raw hide someone anyways, so making it 2k just makes it worse for sprucecaps who then can only use it like one time, and still get rode up on and die lol. Your logic is flawed man, just admit it, you literally had to "test" shit like 4 posts back which perpetuates what others have pointed out, your experience in the subject. Just let this die.

Exactly.

Our team has once pvp with him (as always he knocked out a naked alt. We got scents, tracked him). He used raw hide on himself while running away... I wish i had this recorded.

[kmarad]

the moment this guy gets dunked by someone riding a horse in front of him, and dismounting from it, will be the day he is begging for a bigger radius to raw hide people(this already happens off screen).

"Off screen" what does that even mean man ? this all depends to your zoom level. Look at your logic before criticizing mine

Your logic is flawed man, just admit it, you literally had to "test" shit like 4 posts back which perpetuates what others have pointed out, your experience in the subject. Just let this die.

Dude, you don't even know the precise range of Raw Hide! why are you even talking? You clearly lack experience in the subject...


If all the time that was spent into telling me to shut up because I'm inexperienced had been used cleverly, now everyone would know Raw Hide! more and could share ideas on how to make it better.

I mean, if you have some counter-argument, maybe use those. Or explain why Raw Hide! is so nicely balanced.
Telling someone to shut up because he -apparently- doesn't know the game as much as you is as childish as it is disrespectful.

Especially when so called experts are unable to explain it themselves: I said in the very first post that it was a long stun. Nobody said that it was actually a sleep, and that attacking the rider stops the effect.

Anyway, to the next pseudo experts, don't even bother calling me a noob and asking me to shut up. Because I won't.
If you don't want to participate in this discussion, please don't. Constructive posts are gladly appreciated though.
Thank you.

[Miss_Hera]

cry moar nub. Raw Hide keeps the scrubs in check.