Tool Durability Sucks

[jordancoles]

I'm firmly of the opinion that this should be solidly tied to steady decay of quality as well. The best tools should not stay the best, they should require lossy reforging/recreation/maintenance.

I don't think you understand the lengths people have to go to in order to make 1 of the top quality tools a single time. Regular maintenance and reproduction would be unfun and literally damaging to peoples' physical and mental health

[VDZ]

I am making this thread just to throw the opinion out there. Please never add durability to tools. It is just an unfun mechanic and turns me off of a game almost immediately.

As with all mechanics, I think it depends on the way it's implemented, really. 'Lose 1q per use' or '10 uses and it's gone, no repairs' would be terrible in a Haven context, but for example a '500 uses, repair to full capacity at any time by spending low q base material without any quality loss' would be a lot less problematic despite still being a purely negative mechanic. I personally think the way durability works in Fire Emblem is interesting: Performing a normal attack has a negligible durability impact on your weapon, but you can perform more powerful special attacks at a significant durability cost. As long as you only normally use the item, barely any repair is needed, but you can 'put it into overdrive' at the expense of making it require maintenance. I think a positive durability mechanic like that could be a lot more interesting as a resource sink, as long as the more costly usage is not so much superior that it makes the normal usage irrelevant.

[jordancoles]

I am making this thread just to throw the opinion out there. Please never add durability to tools. It is just an unfun mechanic and turns me off of a game almost immediately.

As with all mechanics, I think it depends on the way it's implemented, really. 'Lose 1q per use' or '10 uses and it's gone, no repairs' would be terrible in a Haven context, but for example a '500 uses, repair to full capacity at any time by spending low q base material without any quality loss' would be a lot less problematic despite still being a purely negative mechanic.

This would be the only acceptable version of tool durability that I could see working out in Haven since it would give base q metals a constant value, regardless of what point in the world we are at. But I would still rather not have it at all obviously lol

[shubla]

I don't think that durability being used should decrease the tools quality.
Perhaps its effectiveness (speed) in crafting or something, or then just nothing.

Repairing could be possible but materials would hardcap or softcap the tool repaired. (never increase ql)
Repairing could also decrease the maximum durability, so you would eventually have to craft a new tool instead of just repairing the one forever.

Decreasing of tool quality when being used is an interesting idea though. Perhaps it could be good?
For example, noobs could get good ql tools for quite cheap as big villages that want top ql would have lots of them and could sell them for cheap.

Two important major benefits of durability would be more sinks/trading/etc. for materials and also scaling the cost of tools to usage rate of them.
The latter being probably the most important.

[jordancoles]

Decreasing of tool quality when being used is an interesting idea though. Perhaps it could be good?

[vatas]

Main problem with various durability systems is that swords last 10 maximum of 100 swings and then they disintegrate. I'd envision (well maintained) tools lasting long enough to chop down thousands of trees before being blunted into uselessness.

Weird idea feel free to ignore, but what if instead of some plain "durability" score, the tool would have essentially it's own "wound" system with carious scrapes and dents (maybe even rust) that could be thwarted off with maintenance?"

[SnuggleSnail]

"what if tools had wounds"

I just love needless complication and annoyances with no purpose, why does it feel so good

[MagicManICT]

I just want to say to the post up a dozen or so since nobody else has said it--the best tools at this moment already don't stay "the best" for long, a few weeks at most, before being replaced by something else that's better. The old stuff then gets handed down. In a way, that is already a decay mechanic. Sure, that quality 100 pick axe that was made week two will persist throughout the world, but what is its worth today, over a year into the world?

[VDZ]

no purpose

Generally, durability mechanics serve the purpose of being resource sinks, raising the value of whatever items are involved in maintenance or replacement. More complex systems like the one Vatas suggested also serve the purpose of adding variety; assuming you don't fix up your tool the very moment it gets damaged, it would at some point force you to choose between using that one axe that chops more slowly, that other axe that causes extra stamina drain, or that third axe that has no issues but is of lower quality. I think that specific implementation clashes a bit with the current 'carry one of each tool around at all times' gameplay caused by toolbelts (and it won't play nice with the 'automatically equip the right tool for the job' QoL mechanic also from toolbelts), but it most definitely does serve a purpose. Whether said purpose justifies the extra complexity and inevitable tedium it would add is subjective.

I just want to say to the post up a dozen or so since nobody else has said it--the best tools at this moment already don't stay "the best" for long, a few weeks at most, before being replaced by something else that's better. The old stuff then gets handed down. In a way, that is already a decay mechanic. Sure, that quality 100 pick axe that was made week two will persist throughout the world, but what is its worth today, over a year into the world?

Nothing, and neither is the metal it was made of. And that's part of the problem durability mechanics could solve. Just throwing a hypothetical mechanic out there, but what if to repair a tool without quality loss you'd need to use up a tool of the same type with at least 70% of the damaged tool's quality? That way the q100 pickaxe would remain relevant, as would the resources required to craft it, as long as your best pickaxes aren't above q142.



Ironically, by posting this thread, Jordancoles got people to talk about durability mechanics and ways they could work. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually inspires devs to add some kind of durability mechanic to the game, rather than preventing it from happening.

[shubla]

Ironically, by posting this thread, Jordancoles got people to talk about durability mechanics and ways they could work. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually inspires devs to add some kind of durability mechanic to the game, rather than preventing it from happening.

He probably wants it in himself too and is just using reverse psychology!

Not sure about tools being outdated in few weeks time.
Maybe during the very early world, but in later in the world the small increase in tool quality is in many cases quite meaningless. And for some tools doesn't matter at all!

Should tools to mine out 10 000 tiles cost more than mining out just a 1000? The answer is obviously yes.

Difficult thing is probably finding some good initial values for the durability in the beginning.