Trade sucks

[Sevenless]

Huh? Did I miss something? I thought token are created only by being bought in the shop. Is there some other way? How exactly the devs would be losing the money?

Noob1: I want good stuff. I buy token from dev
RMT: I have good stuff!

token is traded for goods

Noob2: I want good stuff! I need tokens
RMT: I will sell you token for 70% shop price

token is bought for IRL dollars from RMT, now Noob2 can buy goods from any store in game and it cost them less money than buying from the devs. So the token has been "paid for" twice, but the devs only got one part of that money.

I'm not talking hypothetically here.

[VDZ]

Huh? Did I miss something? I thought token are created only by being bought in the shop. Is there some other way? How exactly the devs would be losing the money?

Noob1: I want good stuff. I buy token from dev
RMT: I have good stuff!

token is traded for goods

Noob2: I want good stuff! I need tokens
RMT: I will sell you token for 70% shop price

token is bought for IRL dollars from RMT, now Noob2 can buy goods from any store in game and it cost them less money than buying from the devs. So the token has been "paid for" twice, but the devs only got one part of that money.

I'm not talking hypothetically here.

The developers still got paid when the token was first introduced into the economy. Further exchange of the token does not harm the devs. And if the system works, tokens will be consumed for subs, reducing the supply of tokens which incentivizes buying new tokens (otherwise the value of tokens would gradually increase until the RMT value eventually exceeds the store value). So the only real question is: How may tokens are being consumed?

[Procne]

The token wasn't designed as a way for devs to get cuts from the trades. If they wanted then they could introduce some paid safe trade feature.
It's just an alternative way to buy a sub. 1 token = 1 month of a sub.

If some people use it as a currency, without consuming then it only means more tokens are sold in the shop, than are consumed in game.

[VDZ]

If some people use it as a currency, without consuming then it only means more tokens are sold in the shop, than are consumed in game.

On the other hand, if e.g. 200 tokens exist in the in-game economy and nothing gets consumed, those 200 tokens will just continue to be traded around without any significant number of new tokens being introduced (bought). In that case, other than the initial 200 purchases, token trading would not bring in any extra money for the devs, while still negatively affecting in-game trading. So it's important that tokens get removed from the economy, otherwise you only have the disadvantages without the benefits.

[Sevenless]

If some people use it as a currency, without consuming then it only means more tokens are sold in the shop, than are consumed in game.

On the other hand, if e.g. 200 tokens exist in the in-game economy and nothing gets consumed, those 200 tokens will just continue to be traded around without any significant number of new tokens being introduced (bought). In that case, other than the initial 200 purchases, token trading would not bring in any extra money for the devs, while still negatively affecting in-game trading. So it's important that tokens get removed from the economy, otherwise you only have the disadvantages without the benefits.

I guess the issue for the devs is how often tokens are getting pulled out of the system and how many have built up over time. If the recirculation is 90% of paid tokens, that's horrendous. If it's 10% fair enough.

That however isn't exactly why the expiry date (for new tokens going forward) suggestion exists. The problem with tokens is that they persist between worlds. Who wants a curiosities or food that goes poof when the next world goes live compared to a token? It has to be a damn valuable resource to compete, hence where we're at. This leads to prices for other goods deflating, which is why buying a token vs hunting 10 cupboards of seal meat exists. It's not that the traders don't want seal meat, it's that seal meat vanishes and tokens don't.

[DDDsDD999]

If tokens didn't exist then there just wouldn't be much worth trading with big traders (besides going back to RMT). I think that should be fixed before reevaluating tokens, as they just serve as a way for the devs to sneak a cut into the RMT that was rampant (and still exists) by over pricing subscriptions.

[Sevenless]

If tokens didn't exist then there just wouldn't be much worth trading with big traders (besides going back to RMT). I think that should be fixed before reevaluating tokens, as they just serve as a way for the devs to sneak a cut into the RMT that was rampant (and still exists) by over pricing subscriptions.

I agree in general with the undeveloped players > developed players economy being wonky. But 7$/month is overpriced for subs? I know a lot of companies region discriminate with their prices to make it cheaper for poorer countries, but 7$ is already 1/3rd the cost of most subs in NA/EU

[Ardennesss]

If tokens didn't exist then there just wouldn't be much worth trading with big traders (besides going back to RMT). I think that should be fixed before reevaluating tokens, as they just serve as a way for the devs to sneak a cut into the RMT that was rampant (and still exists) by over pricing subscriptions.

I agree in general with the undeveloped players > developed players economy being wonky. But 7$/month is overpriced for subs? I know a lot of companies region discriminate with their prices to make it cheaper for poorer countries, but 7$ is already 1/3rd the cost of most subs in NA/EU

1 token is $10, one month sub is $7.
Edit-point being, people don't buy tokens to sub with. If they want to sub, they sub since it's cheaper.

[Sevenless]

If tokens didn't exist then there just wouldn't be much worth trading with big traders (besides going back to RMT). I think that should be fixed before reevaluating tokens, as they just serve as a way for the devs to sneak a cut into the RMT that was rampant (and still exists) by over pricing subscriptions.

I agree in general with the undeveloped players > developed players economy being wonky. But 7$/month is overpriced for subs? I know a lot of companies region discriminate with their prices to make it cheaper for poorer countries, but 7$ is already 1/3rd the cost of most subs in NA/EU

1 token is $10, one month sub is $7.
Edit-point being, people don't buy tokens to sub with. If they want to sub, they sub since it's cheaper.

I though DDD was talking about subscriptions not tokens in his comment.

[Ardennesss]

I though DDD was talking about subscriptions not tokens in his comment.

Both are debtably overpriced compared to alternative games with subscriptions, but tokens being more expensive outright is part of the problem as to why tokens aren't being consumed. Why would you buy and use a $10 sub token when you could just buy bronze 30 day and get a hat with it.