hhp quite dumb

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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby Sevenless » Thu May 27, 2021 2:40 pm

Kaios wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:its cringe how wrong you are.


"hey it's so cringe how wrong you are dude, I'm not going to state anything further about why you are wrong or provide you with the correct information, just wanted to say omg so cringe"


Current damage HHP mechanics (caps the damage on the final hit to be your remaining SHP) make it really hard to oneshot people these days, so much so that legitimate pvp deaths in faction v faction combat are really rare without stream sniping. The quality of your B12 doesn't matter because of that damage cap.

Shubla's complaints seem out of touch from my understanding of the current system, info from people who intentionally try to kill said sprucecaps in this current world.
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby Massa » Thu May 27, 2021 3:59 pm

Liss12 wrote:
Massa wrote:
Zampfeo wrote:Faction PVP would certainly be more spicy if people were actually getting their characters killed more often instead of just KO'd. Being safe from death at any state of the game is pretty lame.

It would become even more boring because asking people to cough up months of work and effort is too much. People would be, logically, unwilling to die.

The idea that big factions involved in PVP won't be able to grow pvp alts in mere days is laughable. Its NOOBS who are losing months of progress, for big village with dedicated fighting alts losing their character is just a minor inconvinience.

this just isn't a realistic perception
making viable pvp characters takes a long time and a lot of effort.
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby drakesaint » Thu May 27, 2021 5:55 pm

Sevenless wrote:Couple issues that add to this issue for new players:

Small wounds are frequent as an experience of wandering around as a nub, but they are flat values not % HHP. It's much easier to drop below "safety" levels with 100-200hhp, compared to 400hhp.

Beginners will have less access to healing. A combination of not knowing what's available, not having access to it, and not having someone deep enough in the alchemy system to help.

Beginners don't understand % hhp as a concept as bmjclark pointed out. I've introduced several friends and they interpret "don't go out with less than 70% hhp" to mean "I can go out if I have 70hhp". They don't scale this well if they level, and being a careless beginner who doesn't understand the seventy ways to get wounded complicates this.

And lastly... beginners just don't understand the impact of death in this game. There's nothing we can do on this one though, they have to deal with that themselves.



Honestly, the way to deal with this imo is contextual tips on the HP bar. Maybe have different colours of HHP symbolizing the different tiers of danger. 90-100% green, 70-90% yellow, <70% red. With a tooltip mouseover explaining that below 90% many animals can possibly kill you, and below 70% players can quite likely murder you in one fight.

PvP between factions seems to be a lot more common since death frequency got toned down. Isn't that more fun for pvpers? If every down was a death, I feel like several factions would already be basically killed out of the world.

This has been discussed in the drowning thread. It is too much of a black-and-white issue that needs middle grounds. A character that survives a murder could have a deadly wound that heals incredibly slowly and reduces almost all stats drastically; kind of like surviving a near-death situation. Bears mauling characters could have a chance of them becoming the Revenant and gaining a buff after they stay several in-game weeks healing. A buff to the character that has almost died to a certain faction when fighting them as a revenge. Or even better, have descendants/factions gain stat points against those that murdered his/their kin.

Permadeath was always fine and should stay, but a leeway for players to severely punish them (while keeping their characters) could be offered.
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby shubla » Thu May 27, 2021 6:14 pm

Sevenless wrote:Shubla's complaints seem out of touch from my understanding of the current system, info from people who intentionally try to kill said sprucecaps in this current world.

Well the fact is that more sprucecaps die in pvp situations than pro players, and sprucecaps never willingly even get in them. That is a problem, which must be fixed. If somebody has more information on how this happens he can maybe share his thoughts on how to prevent it etc.
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby wonder-ass » Thu May 27, 2021 8:24 pm

Kaios wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:its cringe how wrong you are.


"hey it's so cringe how wrong you are dude, I'm not going to state anything further about why you are wrong or provide you with the correct information, just wanted to say omg so cringe"


ur = a retard
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby SnuggleSnail » Fri May 28, 2021 2:52 am

> I have no idea about this topic at all
> I have a very strong opinion about this topic
> I will not say anything to imply I'm not sure about this topic, everything stated as fact
> Why would you just call me a retard instead of writing a 5 page essay explaining this topic to me like I'm a child, putting in more effort than I needed to write my own opinionated drivel

I completely understand why most competent people stop posting here t b h
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby Nightdawg » Fri May 28, 2021 3:31 am

I'll give you my *noob that went to pvp* opinion, as I've seen both sides.

For pvp, when we get KO'd, the wounds are more of a "get crippled for 1-2 days" thing. So the purpose in pvp is to cripple a fighter assuming you'll get a fight in the next day (lmao there's 0 incentive to fight for anything atm btw). Comparing to what I've seen and heard from the previous worlds, it seems to be at its best right now (not saying it's the best possible, but it's definitely better than what it has been before). Perma death is a very very VERY stupid concept because probably like 80% of the players would quit if they were to die even once.

For pve, I personally learned how to cheese everything in this game so I don't get wounded by any sort of animal, and the chances of getting wounded are very low, and they usually depend on very unlikely stuff like me alt-tabbing and getting caved-in cause I'm not paying attention and I mine outside of the mining support radius, or some weird encounters with aggressive animals when there's no boat/river/cliff/cave entrance nearby (the chance of which is even lower since every sane player uses a custom client that has animal alarms after like 2 days of not knowing those clients exist and being told by the entire hnh community).

Now I'm no expert in video games, and I wouldn't call myself some next-level gamer, but it's pretty easy to not die in this game. If you get knocked out by an ant or a boar multiple times, you fucking suck, and you have to learn eventually.
If you go outside of your base when you're badly wounded, that's a risk you're taking and you should acknowledge the fact that you can die on your next knock out.

The only stupid thing is the fact that a big guy/gal can run around with murderous rage and just quick barrage + cleave noobs that don't even have armor, assuming he/she estimates well enough when to stop quick barraging and when to do the massive cleave, that I understand, but it's the game, and that's how you learn. Join a village and try to become better if you can't heal your wounds and are prone to dying to badgers. The game literally encourages you to play in groups, rather than being a pointless useless hermit.

If anything, as the world grows old, they should cripple new characters cause fucking naked alts are still annoying. I'd rather kill naked alts instantly and ban that account from making a new character for one week rather than making noobs harder to kill. THEY HAVE TO LEARN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
You know what I witnessed a couple of days ago? My guy knocked out a random noob cause he had a nice belt that I needed, stole his belt, and the guy didn't port back, he got up instead and started saying "peac me I port back now". I told him to kill him so he fucking learns. Imagine the game offers you the option to go back to safety, and you still don't use it. Punish the noobs so they learn. Making pvp more cancerous is not the answer, if anything, it will make noobs even less likely to try learning how to pvp. I wouldn't have tried to learn how to pvp if it was that cancerous, what would the point even be? Why would I try to get better in a game if those pros would just delete my character in 10 seconds cause I suck?

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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby Kaios » Fri May 28, 2021 11:36 am

Nightdawg wrote:Making pvp more cancerous is not the answer, if anything, it will make noobs even less likely to try learning how to pvp. I wouldn't have tried to learn how to pvp if it was that cancerous, what would the point even be? Why would I try to get better in a game if those pros would just delete my character in 10 seconds cause I suck?


lmao what? What exactly is fun about that situation, that someone got to take a belt? Whoooaaa radical. Yeah I'm sure it was really fun for the guy that got killed in that encounter, I doubt the person who did the killing even had much fun themselves unless they are sadistic and enjoy the act of killing itself rather than a challenging fight. There is nothing fun or interesting about a lack of challenge. I'm sure the victim learned so much useful information and he definitely didn't just stop playing the game instead.

wonder-ass wrote:
Kaios wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:its cringe how wrong you are.


"hey it's so cringe how wrong you are dude, I'm not going to state anything further about why you are wrong or provide you with the correct information, just wanted to say omg so cringe"


ur = a retard


cringe
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby Southpaw » Fri May 28, 2021 12:12 pm

this game will continue to spiral down terrible fucking paths of discussion for as long as the forum is dominated by people who legitimately have barely any idea what they're saying drowning out the input of people who have done the bullshit song and dance for forever

anyone that genuinely believes the "nabs are too prone to death" has anything to do with pvp encounters being 2stronk and not about %hp danger thresholds being fucking wonky unfun mechanics is legitimately insane. it's genuinely obnoxious sometimes to kill people who are full HP unless you deliberately time big chunky hits, no matter your stats. you're almost always going to need two KO's at the very least to kill virtually anyone.

excuse me while i see my 180 hhp nab friend accrue 40 hhp from dumb "just playing the game in ignorance" mechanics (namely a crab, a couple beestings, some sandflea bites for standing on the beach too long, a few points of pipewheeze, and a dovecote), then get caved in on once, then ask me if he should go outside and forage for this-and-that. i loathe being in situations where I'm telling my less-experienced friends "You're done doing outside-things today, if you want to be in the clear for staying alive." because one pvp encounter will put him in the dirt.

no, pvp shouldn't be more risky for big boys. no, pvp shouldn't be less risky for new players. you should not get an omnipowerful damage soaking buff for being new. you should not have the privilege of making really, really, really bad teachable mistakes (Standing up repeatedly in a pvp situation) and still being able to keep your character.

Kaios wrote:
wonder-ass wrote:its cringe how wrong you are.


"hey it's so cringe how wrong you are dude, I'm not going to state anything further about why you are wrong or provide you with the correct information, just wanted to say omg so cringe"

i think after the 5th or 6th time trying to explain the same set of things to the same general cluster of people it's pretty fair to just say one-liners
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Re: hhp quite dumb

Postby Kaios » Fri May 28, 2021 12:20 pm

Southpaw wrote:this game will continue to spiral down terrible fucking paths of discussion for as long as the forum is dominated by people who legitimately have barely any idea what they're saying


True, how many people were and still are in support of tokens? :D
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