Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby MagicManICT » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:48 pm

WowGain wrote:
meus wrote:One may argue that leaving scents is also completely unnecessary.

Or that your walls should be indestructible while you're offline.


buddy there's shifting a goalpost and then there's what you're doing
those posts aren't in the same country anymore

I lol'd. But meus does have a point about the necessity of leaving scents. Everyone once in a while there's just no way around it if you want to do a thing, but it's not the majority of the time.

Overall, I think there is a lot of room for improvement in forced time management in Haven. For those that want to keep arguing "but there's no way to know," I'll just point at my previous post. Nothing in Haven is "known" until you experience it the first time. Making an assumption about how anything works in any computer game is likely to get the player's character into trouble. When you have permadeath, PvP, and game mechanics you haven't seen in other games before, how can one make any assumptions about how a thing works? Best to do some reading on the forums or wiki before doing anything you have to deliberately "turn on"--ie criminal acts. If there's a lack of good reading materials on it... maybe ask before doing something regrettable?
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:19 am

Dying to a spooky ghost because you didn't login is 90s sierra adventure game logic in a game with perma death
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby WowGain » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:39 am

MagicManICT wrote:Overall, I think there is a lot of room for improvement in forced time management in Haven. For those that want to keep arguing "but there's no way to know," I'll just point at my previous post. Nothing in Haven is "known" until you experience it the first time. Making an assumption about how anything works in any computer game is likely to get the player's character into trouble. When you have permadeath, PvP, and game mechanics you haven't seen in other games before, how can one make any assumptions about how a thing works? Best to do some reading on the forums or wiki before doing anything you have to deliberately "turn on"--ie criminal acts. If there's a lack of good reading materials on it... maybe ask before doing something regrettable?


there's an entire philosophy of game design centered around the idea of making mechanics intuitive enough that the player can start building assumptions and not have them blow up in their face- and id say its probably the more preferable one to have in a survival sandbox. punishing exploration or the act of simply not knowing something in a way that doesnt give you anything besides "oh okay, guess ill just not get outlawed if i cant be available 24/7" as feedback might not be the best angle
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby meus » Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:17 pm

Yeah, it shows exactly how little sense the "wait for me to log on" suggestion makes in a persistent world mmo.
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby Willberfollower » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:26 am

meus wrote:Yeah, it shows exactly how little sense the "wait for me to log on" suggestion makes in a persistent world mmo.


Your right It doesn’t make sense for some things. It does when losing your whole character to a AI cause you were busy one day of your life. Especially if there is already a way to punish criminals by sieging their base and killing them (not to mention all the other hassles Criminals already have). Plus its a feature that’s unnecessary. Its like if they made you water your crops every hour (“its a persistent world”) no its dumb and unnecessary to make people water their crops every hour.
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby axus » Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:21 am

What, I can get murdered if I don't obsessively play this game? That's so unfair, some people could get a PvP advantage by playing more
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby Willberfollower » Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:51 pm

axus wrote:What, I can get murdered if I don't obsessively play this game? That's so unfair, some people could get a PvP advantage by playing more


Its not a pvp advantage its literally a AI that kills you cause work required you to go in, before you could log on. That's not pvp that's pve. I keep saying this if players kill you its completely different then a automated AI. I don't understand why you think this feature is good and should stay? I only think its dumb they kill you after 24 hours. If I have to log on everyday or die I'm just not gonna play cause I know its not possible for me to be on everyday. To be clear I'm fine with players ramming your walls and killing you while your offline, cause it takes effort and its not just oh might as well send a nidbane to this random scent.
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby axus » Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:26 pm

Willberfollower wrote:
axus wrote:What, I can get murdered if I don't obsessively play this game? That's so unfair, some people could get a PvP advantage by playing more


Its not a pvp advantage its literally a AI that kills you cause work required you to go in, before you could log on. That's not pvp that's pve. I keep saying this if players kill you its completely different then a automated AI. I don't understand why you think this feature is good and should stay? I only think its dumb they kill you after 24 hours. If I have to log on everyday or die I'm just not gonna play cause I know its not possible for me to be on everyday. To be clear I'm fine with players ramming your walls and killing you while your offline, cause it takes effort and its not just oh might as well send a nidbane to this random scent.


Where did I say it was good? I'd rather everyone get a fair chance to survive, without needing to obsessively play the game. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Re: Nidbane's Waiting Until You Log On.

Postby Willberfollower » Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:21 am

axus wrote:
Willberfollower wrote:
axus wrote:What, I can get murdered if I don't obsessively play this game? That's so unfair, some people could get a PvP advantage by playing more


Its not a pvp advantage its literally a AI that kills you cause work required you to go in, before you could log on. That's not pvp that's pve. I keep saying this if players kill you its completely different then a automated AI. I don't understand why you think this feature is good and should stay? I only think its dumb they kill you after 24 hours. If I have to log on everyday or die I'm just not gonna play cause I know its not possible for me to be on everyday. To be clear I'm fine with players ramming your walls and killing you while your offline, cause it takes effort and its not just oh might as well send a nidbane to this random scent.


Where did I say it was good? I'd rather everyone get a fair chance to survive, without needing to obsessively play the game. Two wrongs don't make a right.


Sorry it sounded like you were being sarcastic lol.
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