Murder buff is a gift to factions and nobody else

[Valgar]

You can define as you want to.
The facts are comparing the gameplay and possibility to grow a character for a well-organized group compared to a solo hermit isn't really fair.
Of course you'll say "Learn the pvp mechanics", but many are just chilling on the game and loving to play like that.

Seeing when you start on "League of Legends" now and only getting games with "smurf" against you ? It's the same thing, they aren't looking for challenge, just the fun to destroy your game.

Hermits could learn the mechanics yeah, but who are you to judge THEY HAVE TO, and day 1, or just have to leave the game ?
Even if they learn the mechanics, the "veterans" will know thoses even better than them, and if they can they will exploit some others to dig the gap.

[SnuggleSnail]

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Of course you'll say "Learn the pvp mechanics", but many are just chilling on the game and loving to play like that.

I have had friends from other games play haven for less than 6 hours total and already be good enough at running that I could never KO them

I wholly agree. The game should force you to learn the basics and you should get fucked if you refuse. It's so trivial to be 'good enough', something you can realistically learn in one or two sessions of play.

it's so sad that the game just tries to just baby people, and as a result there are people who have played for 10+ years and are still more helpless than some of my friends who have played for a single day.

[Valgar]

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it's so sad that the game just tries to just baby people, and as a result there are people who have played for 10+ years and are still more helpless than some of my friends who have played for a single day.

Depend of what you're calling "helpless".
If your point of view is only on the PvP I don't think this is a fair opinion.
If H&H was only a PvP game, I could easily imagine none were playing it.

[Clemins]

You can define as you want to.
The facts are comparing the gameplay and possibility to grow a character for a well-organized group compared to a solo hermit isn't really fair.
Of course you'll say "Learn the pvp mechanics", but many are just chilling on the game and loving to play like that.

Hermits could learn the mechanics yeah, but who are you to judge THEY HAVE TO, and day 1, or just have to leave the game ?
Even if they learn the mechanics, the "veterans" will know thoses even better than them, and if they can they will exploit some others to dig the gap.

Why should anyone who spent a considerable amount of time in this game be on the same relative level as someone who just started to play today? If Haven was designed to be this Animal Crossing/Harvest Moon-esque game, then it wouldn't contain the very features that seem to be bothering you. Haven has NEVER been 100% about PvE or PvP, but pretending like one or the other doesn't exist and then getting blindsided when someone rolls up on you isn't the fault of the game or the individual who did so, it's yours for pretending the game is something that it's not.

Seeing when you start on "League of Legends" now and only getting games with "smurf" against you ? It's the same thing, they aren't looking for challenge, just the fun to destroy your game.

That's something you should expect in any MOBA or similar style of game, the point here is pretending that Haven isn't a PvP game and then getting dunked on doesn't mean there is something wrong with the game. Without PvP or griefing in a sandbox MMO, this game would fall apart. loftar summed up why it is a necessary evil here:

Do I really have to spell it out for you? My point is this: What do you do on a non-PvP server when someone:
Starts building a village idol to claim the land around you;
Takes ten alts to block the exit of your palisade gate;
Builds a palisade around your claim;
Plants a tight forest all around you, or conversely, cuts down all the trees around you;
Simply stands in your way;
Runs away with the carcass of the animal you just killed; or
Just decides to settle down next to you while you don't like him?
These, and many other conceivable actions, are far easier ways to grief people than is PvP, and PvP is the only thing that keeps them somewhat in check. Therefore, removing PvP results not in less griefing, but in more.

[Valgar]

I totally agree that PvP should coexist with PvE in Haven.
It's not the fault of Haven, and not a design the fault on any MOBA game. It's the fault of the human behavior on ANY game when they got the possiblity to be a dickhead.
Why choosing to be a bully and not helped the newcomers introducing with the game ? But here I'm not anymore on the topic subject.

[overtyped]

factions simply designate a no statted/unskilled throwaway murder alt to be the killer during a gank

This isn't just a possibility, or a random occurrence this. is. the. meta.

I always enjoy hearing random hermit say what is faction meta

Who exactly is doing this? where is the video or screenshots?

People almost never use murderous rage unless in some kind of 10v1 gank situation but why would you need an alt then? Normally its like whoever can do the fattest cleave with best b12 and highest strength

Murder is a gift to PvPers and no one else, like gj sherlock, you cracked this case wide open, whod have known murder is good for pvp factions, although none of them ever use it

One of my villagemates was actually in this exact situation. He had 2guys breaking his defenses, but only one actually ever dealt dmg, which took almost all his HHP because that one guy had the murder buff.

[overtyped]

That's not really a cry post, it's more a post to attract attention about "faction players" or more commonly "veteran" of H&H, willing to PvP, choosing to kill hermits instead of real PvP.

Willingly choosing not to learn the fighting, dieing, mrage, and siege mechanics and then proposing drastic changes to content you (or anyone here) doesn't understand is something I'd define as a cry post.

Friend, Bob Dole fights every day. Against actual pvpers too, crazy.

[Massa]

Hermits could learn the mechanics yeah, but who are you to judge THEY HAVE TO, and day 1, or just have to leave the game ?
Even if they learn the mechanics, the "veterans" will know thoses even better than them, and if they can they will exploit some others to dig the gap.

PvP games are not hard. You are the dominant apex predator on Earth, a living human being with a human brain. You can think critically, and you can definitely learn the very simple mechanics of any PvP game. Smurfs in League are just better players than you. You seriously want to just wander into a new environment, demand it all change because you don't even want to put in the effort to figure out where you should put your effort?

Put in the few drops it takes to not suck at a shitty moba instead of wandering into a PvP game alone and whining that it's not farmville man.

[Valgar]

PvP games are not hard. You are the dominant apex predator on Earth, a living human being with a human brain. You can think critically, and you can definitely learn the very simple mechanics of any PvP game. Smurfs in League are just better players than you. You seriously want to just wander into a new environment, demand it all change because you don't even want to put in the effort to figure out where you should put your effort?

Put in the few drops it takes to not suck at a shitty moba instead of wandering into a PvP game alone and whining that it's not farmville man.

Here again, we are in "Critics and ideas" forum, I'm not crying cause I'm not learning the game nor any mechanics I'm playing since World 4 and learned since how the game is working.
I am just throwing some ideas, not to take like that but just to possibly imagine a smoother gaming experience for newcomers cause we can't change toxic behaviours.

[Potjeh]

Yeah, leaning into the PvP aspect is definitely the optimal development strategy for a low player count MMO with lackluster combat and regular lag spikes.