make siege 24 hours again

[Massa]

pvp focus=economy, players, drama, activity, fun

I'm genuinely interested in understanding how pvp related activities have improved the game in any of those categories, if you wouldn't mind explaining please. Seems to me the way it goes in most worlds is that as the more active players get killed/harassed the player count begins to trickle downwards until the player killers end up getting bored as well.

I understand the need for aggressive actions as a means to an end, but in what way has any focus on that improved the game at all over the last several years?

Aggressive action isn't a means to an end, it's an end - and there hasn't been a drop of focus on it in the last few years. It's the goal. Jorb said it himself, this game is meant to simulate politics, group conflict and interaction, scarcity, contention, competition and everything that comes with a lawless world and carte blanche for death. It's a fun simulation. This gives us a variety of things that are all reasons to play. Risk, something being on the line (but not much, and I actually like being able to TP away), our standing fueds, competition for resources, instigations, etc. are driving forces that attract players that put in significant effort into being creative and figuring things out, players who quit when shit is brainlessly boring. I am sorry, but moose hunters don't play longer than 3 larpy weeks and offer nothing besides selling someone bigger some cheap trash at a market. This shit will go nowhere if the focus remains on warming the ground and snow mushrooms. Sailing rivers to kill random woodland creatures that can't fight back is not a game that lasts, and neither is paving and building houses. It's your A types and competitive natured people who are inclined toward conflict who actually move or do ANYTHING of fucking remote value in these games. They build markets, they basically develop the economy of the game, etc.

And it's not like I'm talking about how this should be an esport, just give us something less stale. More big monsters, more weapons, change siege mechanics. Let us fight, make things risky and rough, give animals murder again, raids are good. Raids are the best part of the game. I think hermits and shit are confused when they think raids=deleting someone from the game, or being attacked in the woods=your character is dead but the reality is that even weak hermits can get off mostly fine after being raided or attacked, but it's not, especially considering that most of it is large group conflict or instigates it by proxy.

farmville is fkn boring bro lmfao fighting is fun as fuck

[WowGain]

pvp focus=economy, players, drama, activity, fun

I'm genuinely interested in understanding how pvp related activities have improved the game in any of those categories, if you wouldn't mind explaining please. Seems to me the way it goes in most worlds is that as the more active players get killed/harassed the player count begins to trickle downwards until the player killers end up getting bored as well.

I understand the need for aggressive actions as a means to an end, but in what way has any focus on that improved the game at all over the last several years?

the largest markets in the world atm are literally run by a faction that accepts RMT to come and fight at places
they might not actually win the fight for you but my point still stands

[Massa]

To add: when I talk about PvP I'm not talking about stabbing silly hermits in the woods. Go back home and put on some gauze and you'll be utterly fine, it's how things go. Your minimap sized village is not getting raided by anyone who is not your peer, and that's a good thing.

Attack your neighbors, even if you'll lose the fight. It's a good thing, and part of the human condition.

fine make siege 24hours. But hey make it so stats only count for pvp up to 500. Stat grind for PvE can be same

It'd make it less of a chore to play the game too.

You'll still be able to shit on hermits but less disparity between you and other half competent players.

This game already has equalizations that make major stat disparities meaningless.

[Zentetsuken]

this is thread is such a cringefest, watching the last tiny handful of people left in the game that actually care about pvp and siege grasp at straws

pvp is over brothers its time to move on

you guys can just larp pvp, it's pretty much already a larp, you guys make up conflicts and schedule fights and then run around for 2 hours and larp-declare somebody a winner

there will be no difference if pvp is removed, you can just chase each other around and continue your competitive water-drinking larp, nobody will be able to stop you

[Kaios]

You do make some points that I wholeheartedly agree with, specifically in regard to the overarching theme of political and economical conflict/competition, but this is also why I mentioned aggressive actions as being a means to an end because player versus player does not solely entail the act of physical combat between parties.

I suppose I am using too broad of a description by attempting to classify one specific category as "aggressive actions" though, considering the nature of the game. As you mentioned, most anything can be perceived as aggressive by someone else but hopefully my meaning came across clearer than that. I'm not opposed to more risk and I doubt many players would be, but I also believe these issues are more complicated than you make them out to be.

Take the economy for example; there is a large distinction to be made between trade and markets in recent worlds compared to the earlier worlds and beyond the introduction of tokens I am sure there are a variety of other reasons that could be attributed to this. However, is

the largest markets in the world atm are literally run by a faction that accepts RMT to come and fight at places

that the sort of economy we should be fostering? There is no denying that over time the amount of RMT has increased whether it be in the form of a token, hat, or real money, and the sad state of Apples for Oranges over the course of the most recent worlds is a large indication of that. Hermit/small village players not having much to offer larger villages has existed in some way for a long time now, but this problem has only been compounded by that ever-increasing presence of RMT.

One of the issues I see in making siege/raiding too easy is one that game devs have been attempting to solve for eons, and that is balancing the amount of time and investment that goes in to the creation of something with the time and investment it takes to destroy it. In this regard, I do think some of the changes have been for the better to increase positive interaction between players, but I understand why you feel the way you do about pvp and I agree that obviously their attempts to get more players interested in that aspect have not been as fruitful as they may have hoped.

I don't know if I am necessarily in agreement that all players who build markets, realms, or other similar stuff like that are all inclined towards conflict, at least not the sort of destructive conflict that I believe you are referring to. In my experience these types of players take on projects such as those because they like to create; they enjoy growing a community and fostering relationships and as you mentioned, participating in the economic and political aspects that the game has to offer (or what little it has to offer depending on your perspective). Although in my opinion, players like those are few and far between these days.

[roskuwacz]

the largest markets in the world atm are literally run by a faction that accepts RMT to come and fight at places
they might not actually win the fight for you but my point still stands

Ahh this is bullshit ^^ Most players that build markets/community villages don't care about the profit. The PVP players are the ones that want to sell their characters when they are starting to loose.


About the PVP looking at this world most pvp players play pvp only when hunting on some newbies/people that know shit about the fighting mechanic. Is it is only fun when the prey don't know how to run away/fight back, it is like hunting a moose but with additional loot/drama. Want to have more real pvp situation? Increase RedHanded up to 1 hour so someone can react and try to track you while you cannot port back.

The Scents mechanic (Nidbane Fetter/Scrying Juice) is useless. Scrying Juice should last the whole time that scent is active not a 5 sec usage. Nidbane Fetter? - Maybe enable controlling the nidbane by a player if not why not delete it? It is useless.

I agree that the siege is mostly dead when someone improved their village but I am completely sure that most villages/claims don't know about the mechanic and they can be raided in 24h.

Edit:
Items should have indicators that they are scented (pvp "gods" tend to steal items from newbies and put it back in the eq so they can track newbie one more time)
Implement indicator that your claim bound is being studied (similar as the system notification that siege engine is being activated near the village)
Disable death when getting Ko in water?

[SnuggleSnail]

Hey, so, I respect the whole brodgar thing. I think it's rly good for the game and you should unironically be receiving support from the devs to continue that project as easily as possible. That said, it's very clear a lot of what you're saying comes from inexperience.

• There have been between exactly one and and two major markets that weren't run by PVP groups in the last 5ish years, and I'm only counting yours because it's gray and pointless to argue over semantics when no matter how generously it's counted 95% of all significant markets were run by PVP groups.
• All fights between competent people are consensual now, so any fights happening at all is kindof proof that people don't /just/ want to shit on nabs
• Tracking during redhand is unironically a myth perpetuated by opinionated sprucecaps, and a couple people who just don't want banditry to be fun
• Scrying being abused would reduce spontaneous PVP drastically, because it would lead to degenerate inescapable ganks which would cause people to play around it / be very safe

Like, TBH suggesting an hour of redhand is something that would cause fights is such a backward ass wrong thing to say that perpetuating it makes me want to curse you out a bit. For anybody competent the second they're off screen they're gone and you will never catch them unless they let you. All redhand ever did was make an entire playstyle insanely tedious(which reduced the people participating, like, fucking OBVIOUSLY???), and maybe punish a few casual/new people who were trying to dip their toes in. Like, it's such an insanely wrong statement it's kindof upsetting when people other than aleck/shubla/audiosmurf say it.

[Clemins]

the largest markets in the world atm are literally run by a faction that accepts RMT to come and fight at places
they might not actually win the fight for you but my point still stands

Ahh this is bullshit ^^ Most players that build markets/community villages don't care about the profit. The PVP players are the ones that want to sell their characters when they are starting to loose.

Eh I mean, tokens/hats cost money and most markets exchange tokens for their currency. Still is technically RMT, but instead of the irl value of money going to the seller, it's going to jorb and the "value" lies in it's use and correlation to an IRL price tag. While no one is assuming that market owners specifically RMT in the more so direct sense, people facilitate RMT in markets' discords, dms, on site, etc. So to say markets (whether owners or patrons) =/= RMT couldn't be further from the truth, but I don't think anyone is worried about that in this thread. Wowgain is specifically talking about an instance were someone paid someone else (with irl money) to fight on their behalf, and sort of broadly speaking about instances such as these happening both outside and inside markets. Unless you're taking a stance here and indirectly mean to say something like this was facilitated in your market, in which case,
Interesting...

[WowGain]

The absolute copefest
Neither you or the market shill that popped in could actually counter that the groups in this game that prop up the economy are the same groups that seek out conflict

I'm sorry to be the one to burst the bubble of your larp fantasy but there is no secret market out there where friendly hermits gather together and create a blueberry based economy

[NeiroShop]

This game already has equalizations that make major stat disparities meaningless.

Is that why pvp nerds grind stats to have more than everyone else?
Hilarious that you folks whine about grind yet when it'd make it more equal playing field you're against it.

As Snugglesnail every now and then posts he wishes for PvP to be more including of every player not just the PvP Buffs yet but hey only if you have enough of an advantage ehh? Q of Gear and stuff not enough?