New Siege Implementation: Siege Claims

[sabinati]

As for shell design, have you honestly made an effort to come up with something different?

Of course, but there hasn't exactly occurred a downpour of good ideas in my mind, at least not ones that have stood the test of analysis. As I said, the braziers of Salem were an attempt; one that I'd classify as moderately successful.

new race dogmen guard dogs

[gad432]

No doubt I'd like to remove all claim magic altogether, but it's easier said than done. See the current situation, for instance. Mind you, almost all of it stems from us trying to compensate for the fact that players aren't online 24/7, which in itself is an unrealistic scenario with zero analogy to real world processes.

Why do you have to solve the problem of missing players 24/7? If I do not weed the garden, it grows. If I need to save things I put the door. But any door in the real world can be hacked in hours, if not in minutes. If i'm afraid i put 2 doors. 3 locks on each. I put by myself. I do not ask God to protect my toilet, while I went to sleep. if you want security, build 2-3-4 walls 30 tiles apart. can not? do not want? Why do you require protection from the developer?

[unicron]

This kind of siege implementation would be the beginning of end. It is not sutible for the game with so huge difference between players (theirs combat stats, equipments grade, experience and numbers of fighters) .
So what can small settlements do to protect? Nothing, nothing at all...

[Avu]

So things.

Guessing vaults will still be the easiest shit to build compared to lived in places. Add a few spotter discord connected alts reporting on any activity and you have pretty much a completely secure vault and if it fails it's not like anything of value would be lost, still ample time to move away to another castle. The layout of such a vault is easy villages encircling the others with a 101 tile buffer between them. Since it's cheaper to just add another layer for such a thing (space constraints not really an issue as opposed to a lived in place) I predict they will be palisades anyway. So again raider forts will be fuck easy to create and stage attacks from. If the raiders cared enough they could be completely disconnected from their production centers like NNN used to do waaaay back in world 5. Glad to see that in 10 years of development there is still no real correlation between the security of a place and the general activity of the people or lack thereof. Not. But I guess we have to protect the poor sensitive snowflake raiders or they might throw a sissy fit. Punishing criminals yeah what a joke.

Now for the fucking up with peoples bases because Jorb and Loftar are shit at planning? Nothing new on this front as well. And I will tell you right now why they are nanananana about upgrading walls. It's because they fucking don't have a system to do it, are too lazy to implement it and would rather have some drama on the forums from people being raided than you know actually making sensible systems. And the whole you should have thought it's more expensive and it's gonna be better oh god, like many have said u have a fuckton of useless shit in this game that nobody touches and you don't spend a second on fixing even though it would be fucking trivial compared to replacing combat and sieging every chance you get (and making it worse usually and then undoing it). And your argument that we don't want progress is such a fallacy. We fucking want progress but you remember this is a game that has worlds that span years and your toying with ideas affects the effort poured in by hundreds to thousands of people. You were given a solution and that is upgrading walls. But you want to half ass the whole thing do some quick band aid "fix" and be done with it. Just work on the fucking upgrade building system. It would apply to a loooot more than just this case and would be a good addition to the game. But nooo that's too hard. Let's piss into this pot and see if the soup taste ok after.

What a fucking joke.

Also jorb clean up your fucking base I'm sure your new one looks as much a complete pigsty as the world 10 one.

[jorb]

Anyway, please read at least the first chapter of Code Complete. It's free, it's well written and it's insightful. Come on, what do you have to lose

A self-help book presenting abstract solutions to abstract problems, spending a lot of time simply dwelling on, and analyzing said abstract problems, to then present platitudes as solutions. Trying to learn how to write good code by reading books like these are like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle by reading a book about it.

[jorb]

Glad to see that in 10 years of development there is still no real correlation between the security of a place and the general activity of the people or lack thereof.

I would agree that a better gradient in terms of how fortified a place is would probably be desirable. I agree that it is a bit odd how throwaway palisades are about as safe as a large, well-established village.

Now for the fucking up with peoples bases because Jorb and Loftar are shit at planning? Nothing new on this front as well. And I will tell you right now why they are nanananana about upgrading walls. It's because they fucking don't have a system to do it, are too lazy to implement it and would rather have some drama on the forums from people being raided than you know actually making sensible systems. And the whole you should have thought it's more expensive and it's gonna be better oh god, like many have said u have a fuckton of useless shit in this game that nobody touches and you don't spend a second on fixing even though it would be fucking trivial

I don't think wall upgrades would be hard to implement in one way or another, I just don't like the mechanic that much. In any event, the suggestion that brick walls be given a use case was the smallest, and least critical part of this suggestion.

Feel free to suggest "sensible systems", and feel free to point out things that are useless. We have tried to make quite a bit of changes to both food and curios with the reset.

[Granger]

Glad to see that in 10 years of development there is still no real correlation between the security of a place and the general activity of the people or lack thereof.

I would agree that a better gradient in terms of how fortified a place is would probably be desirable. I agree that it is a bit odd how throwaway palisades are about as safe as a large, well-established village.

There have been suggestions that claims should generate presence/authority only when characters are actually living on them, instead of the current ability to fuel them from the far through actions that are in no way connected to the particular claim.

I guess it could be enough to track XP events happening on the claim, to members which then build a pool that can be later be converted into presence/authority through the usual members gaining LP from curiosities (possibly only in case the gain also happens while on the claim).

That should differentiate nicely between a vault and a settlement where actual living/working happens.

I don't think wall upgrades would be hard to implement in one way or another, I just don't like the mechanic that much. In any event, the suggestion that brick walls be given a use case was the smallest, and least critical part of this suggestion.

A dried Palisade could be the base requirement (used as the framework/scaffolding) for a brickwall. In case you don't like that: there should be at least a way to remove own walls in a controlled manner (cascade needs to be controllable on restructuring own walls) that dosn't boil down to destroying characters hunger for days/weeks (as having to wreck over and over again).

Feel free to suggest "sensible systems",

Maybe something like viewtopic.php?f=48&t=62403 or viewtopic.php?f=48&t=52611 to make the outcome less binary.

and feel free to point out things that are useless.

Endless growth in numbers, as that removes your ability to nerf things that get exploited by a fraction of the users without permanently penalizing all others that didn't concentrate on obtaining the gains from the unbalanced thing as quickly as possible (see Kebab).

[Avu]

I have suggested sensible systems before and you never implemented them.
-The burn shit down system (which you can recover from) that Potjeh recently brought back up was originally one of mine.
-Correlating claim strength with the amount of experience that is being gained on that claim and only on that claim is another (experience because easiest way to get it is to play the game and it's non trivial to bot).
-Wall scaling naked with just a weapon with very limited thieving / summoning of criminals and no possibility to initiate other combat than through summoning; dogs, stealth ( stealth and lp of wall jumper to be matched by guards perception and total lp to combat alts on both sides). The summoning would take much longer than regular summoning but it would still be possible. It would force criminals to place their fires inside active places rather than in throw away vaults/forts and it would bring up the possibilities of betrayal (betrayer could move the dogs away turn a blind eye to the jumpers, provide exact location and time the possibilities are endless).

As for things that are shit? Any food that takes non easily spammable ingredients is shit once you are established think grubs, snails, FRUITS, BERRIES, MUSHROOMS (too much effort compared to just regular crops/animal products). If you were doing the trees anyway I guess you could do the fruit but that's only as a side product in order not to throw away the produce. Multiply fruit count by 5 to 10 times and disconnect replantable seeds from useful products. Yes it makes larpy sense that the fruit contain the seeds but you can just make fertile fruits a subset of total fruits or whatever and keep up the current numbers, it certainly will allow for more options in regards to trees that won't make them op in the quality race. For the few mushrooms that gardener credo can use it's somewhat ok but still the work compared to regular crops is huge all that damn soil digging; for the other shrooms yeah fuck that.

For curios same thing. That steel slinky shit, anything made with gold MAWS, moths, lizards all shit or not worth it. Other stuff is way more rare than it needs: glimermoss, edelweiss. Not stressing curios too much but I'm sure the optimizers know and can input.

[Granger]

Ragarding Avu and food: seeds could be created when crafting food with the fruits as a byproduct, similar to eating the fruit itself works.
That's stuff for another topic though.

[Lojka]

as i see the new system, this can happen:

- enemy come to me at 5 a.m., build siedge engine, make some siedge points (300 / 2500)
- next day, some sedge points removed naturaly -100. So (200 / 2500) left

next day enemy come again, make another 300, and so on...

so after 10 days of ninja siedge they will break walls


I think here we lack some kind of defence, got one idea (it sounds like one before)

1. enemy build siedge claim (like personnal)
2. it have 100x100 area
3. they can build siedge machines on it, and this machines, when they attack a wall, make siedge points against v/p-claims this wall is on.
(this part exepct for 1 is like current idea)

4. defender come make some actions against siedge claim (i think same, like build wrecking ball and try to kill sidge claim)

and so now, it became a game of who is more active on this siedge claim.
if defender is afk, then you build 100% points at 24h

so to demolish base, you whould not only attack walls, but defende siedge claim too
(and there can be siedge only wall, with like... pointed logs / stakes)