Crossroads - vote on the poll to make haven great again

[MagicManICT]

1) Steal lowQ knarr from random hermit
2) Dock it to the village you wanna fuck with
3) Travel to dock in said knarr from your base
4) ????
5) Waypoint the knarr back to your base on an alt
6) Hearth on the alt back to the place the knarr is dock ready for next time

I don't doubt your method, but what I just read here is "Knarr fast travel is bugged and needs to be fixed."

[Headchef]

1) Steal lowQ knarr from random hermit
2) Dock it to the village you wanna fuck with
3) Travel to dock in said knarr from your base
4) ????
5) Waypoint the knarr back to your base on an alt
6) Hearth on the alt back to the place the knarr is dock ready for next time

I don't doubt your method, but what I just read here is "Knarr fast travel is bugged and needs to be fixed."

Yeah be careful with saying anything at all to be honest because will just be seen as overpowered and needs to get nerfed to shit so it feel equally fucked as other aspects of the game..

[Kaios]

I'm pretty sure, like, every faction has independently come up with and employed the above method.

It would not surprise me to find that the players complaining about travel the most are also the players utilizing the best ways to avoid doing it

Also, here's a modern example of a major faction trying to siege a hearth vault: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=66058

Who would win, 1k attribute 2k ua bois with the best gear in the game or

Part of the reason why hearth vaults were necessary then and no longer required now is due to the lack of any real threat of siege, and I don't mean simply because siege was easy. Having super powers capable of bashing brick walls, while I don't think would work out the same way now, at the time ended up being a very good check in keeping a majority of players in line.

In World 3 both Sodom and AD had brick bashers and I don't think they ever used them against each other's main villages (or at least not successfully) but I can certainly recall times where they used them against each other in a hearth vault scenario or against other players for various reasons. But I think this only worked well due to several factors, one of them being that both sides had capable fighters and another due to the combat system allowing for more freedom in how you chose to approach and take on an opponent. Rarely did I ever hear about a major faction pulling out their brick basher to raid some little hermit base because it did take significant effort to build a character up to that point and taking them outside of the walls tended to be a risky thing to do.

I'm not sure how that same dynamic could be achieved now but I do think it would be the ideal scenario.

[SnuggleSnail]

Kaiso, you're apparently constantly being griefed with by people. They probably use this method of travel to do so. You didn't even realize, which means you've taken zero counter-measures to prevent it, and still everything is fine. You're doomsday preaching about outlaws getting fast travel, when outlaws already have a better version of fast travel that is better for offensive purposes than what is being suggested, and everything is fine.

Allowing outlaws to use charterstones would just make it easier to faff around. It's nearly irrelevant in terms of hostile action.

[loleznub]

Kaiso, you're apparently constantly being faffed with by people. They probably use this method of travel to do so. You didn't even realize, which means you've taken zero counter-measures to prevent it, and still everything is fine. You're doomsday preaching about outlaws getting fast travel, when outlaws already have a better version of fast travel than is being suggested, and everything is fine.

Allowing outlaws to use charterstones would just make it easier to faff around. It's nearly irrelevant in terms of hostile action.

If only he'd realize if he just shut his mouth maybe people would do shit to him like bash his knarr dock and then go cry about it on the forums

[Kaios]

you're apparently constantly being griefed with by people. They probably use this method of travel to do so. You didn't even realize, which means you've taken zero counter-measures to prevent it, and still everything is fine. You're doomsday preaching about outlaws getting fast travel, when outlaws already have a better version of fast travel that is better for offensive purposes than what is being suggested, and everything is fine.

Ok and what’s your point? I’ve never noticed anyone port to one of my docks that wasn’t supposed to be there so I am still rather skeptical that’s a widely used method especially if players would rather bash the docks than utilize them in that manner and it changes nothing regarding my stance towards fast travel. Better is your opinion, that does not sound at all like an ideal method of travel to me.

[SnuggleSnail]

there's a dock every other map grid, just because they bashed yours doesn't mean they're not porting to a nearby dock.
But that doesn't matter, because if they really wanted they could just make some roads with like two knarr stops in the middle to fast travel to your village
But that doesn't matter, because presumably anything they're doing to grief your village could be done on worthless vandal alts that could be stationed nearby
But that doesn't matter, because half of their faction fighters are probably not outlawed most of the time, and could just charter over with a dummy village irrespective
But that doesn't matter, because they could just waypoint over on a knarr while they're doing stuff on their crafter
But that doesn't matter, because they could still travel to a dock


Literally none of the people that actively don't want outlaws to be able to teleport have any reason based in reality to not want it to be allowed. At most, it slightly reduces to autism required to quickly travel to enemy villages, but 99.9999999999999999999% of the time there would be an easier way to do it than using charters/CRs. It's just an inconvenience for outlaws, always needing will alts for trade, and having to use other non-intuitive methods for fast travel elsewhere.

[Kaios]

there's a dock every other map grid, just because they bashed yours doesn't mean they're not porting to a nearby dock.
But that doesn't matter, because if they really wanted they could just make some roads with like two knarr stops in the middle to fast travel to your village
But that doesn't matter, because presumably anything they're doing to grief your village could be done on worthless vandal alts that could be stationed nearby
But that doesn't matter, because half of their faction fighters are probably not outlawed most of the time, and could just charter over with a dummy village irrespective
But that doesn't matter, because they could just waypoint over on a knarr while they're doing stuff on their crafter
But that doesn't matter, because they could still travel to a dock

I don't do any of those things except for using a charter and I have no problem taking my knarr on a long trip when necessary. If all of those methods of travel have been available and are widely used, what exactly are you complaining about? That long-distance travel is too easy?

No one said being an Outlaw was supposed to be easy.

[SnuggleSnail]

I don't do any of those things except for using a charter and I have no problem taking my knarr on a long trip when necessary. If all of those methods of travel have been available and are widely used, what exactly are you complaining about? That long-distance travel is too easy?

They're not all widely used, but if one is nerfed into the ground everybody will move on to the next best thing on the list. Outlaws using charterstones would currently not be the best on the list for hostile actions if it were available , is my point.
If your entire argument is "if outlaws can teleport to charters, it would be too easy for AD to grief my village on a daily basis", then how is your experience or willingness to take advantage of any of these travel methods at all relevant? How many villages are you griefing on a daily basis? AD could get to your village very quickly at any point. Anybody with half a brain could, as I feel I've demonstrated.

No one said being an Outlaw was supposed to be easy.

ok so ur argument has devolved into "fuck outlaws for no reason", now that it's been thoroughly demonstrated your previous arguments were completely baseless
I kind of assumed this was the reasoning behind ur other arguments, too
It's okay, though, I bet basically nobody will be willing to read through this many pages of autism to figure out if you're wrong or not, and anybody half way knowledgeable would've already known you were wrong to begin with so idk why I'm still arguing

[Kaios]

That's not my argument, you're typing words in my mouth. I've held the same stance pertaining to fast travel regardless of my status in the world, I've always felt that criminal deeds should retain a punishing factor associated with them and it's an opinion I've held for I don't know how long. I already agree that fast travel could use improvement but you're not being very persuasive either way, I just don't like instant world travel whether you're an outlaw or not. I understand that players can becomed scented without necessarily being "bad" such as in their own self-defense and it certainly sucks in those cases when you lose access to something for the time but I'm fine with that trade-off if when it also limits the ability of more aggressive players to travel around where and when they please.