better payment model brainstorm

[strpk0]

Explain to me how a subscribed account with q200 armor, weapons, and food has no inherent advantage over a free player with <50q armor, weapons, and food.

Not to mention there will apparently be hardcaps on the freeplayer's agility, mc, ua, and strength

It WILL have an advantage over non-paying accounts. The point is here, AFTER you pay your $10 subscription, you have the same opportunities as someone who pays $300, and so on.
If you just want to mess around and have fun with the game, don't pay for it. If you want to be hardcore and be the very best like no one ever was, pay a subscription.

Inputting more money will NOT result in gaining more advantage than other people, but you WILL need to input the basic subscription fee to be on equal grounds.
Clear enough...?

[abt79]

it's not pay2win it's pay2be able2win it's different

The worst part is even those who pay the most are capped at 200, so once they reach that point in their specialization/qualities, they'll quit

[abt79]

Explain to me how a subscribed account with q200 armor, weapons, and food has no inherent advantage over a free player with <50q armor, weapons, and food.

Not to mention there will apparently be hardcaps on the freeplayer's agility, mc, ua, and strength

It WILL have an advantage over non-paying accounts. The point is here, AFTER you pay your $10 subscription, you have the same opportunities as someone who pays $300, and so on.
If you just want to mess around and have fun with the game, don't pay for it. If you want to be hardcore and be the very best like no one ever was, pay a subscription.

Inputting more money will NOT result in gaining more advantage than other people, but you WILL need to input the basic subscription fee to be on equal grounds.
Clear enough...?

Yeah I see he's saying that, but you're still paying for the advantage of being able to compete on equal grounds.


Also I can't see how subs will be the very best once all of them have the exact same maxed attributes/abilities. At the very least, there should be no caps once you subscribe, and really the freeplay and verified caps should raise at least a little

[sabinati]

honestly i found nothing wrong with the subscription model, but the economics of it just don't work for some people i guess. would people pay for bronze subs if there was a tin sub at 1/3 of the cost? idk.

i still think cosmetic only is viable as well, you just have to make it work with the game correctly. people don't want to buy a hat if they have to choose between the fancy hat and a helmet that could save their life.

[strpk0]

I don't think they are 100% adamant on that payment model, hence why this thread was created.
I get you don't like the idea, and I don't necessarily like it either. But this thread is to give suggestions that are better for us, and also for them. This is the chance we have to shape the payment model in a way that allows us to support them while still enjoying the game we like. Feel free to make suggestions, but don't just keep beating the same dead horse over and over, I don't think it helps much.

[abt79]

i still think cosmetic only is viable as well, you just have to make it work with the game correctly. people don't want to buy a hat if they have to choose between the fancy hat and a helmet that could save their life.

How would they go about implementing this though, a cosmetic overlayer/two more cosmetic equipment slots?

[Kubius]

First off: You might keep the idea of a stat cap for unverified accounts.That's a good way to at least minimally combat botters without adversely effecting randoms TOO badly, plus getting you to verify for that OTP of $15. I'd put it a little higher than 50, though.

For the rest of us? Hell to the freaking no. Stats are EVERYTHING. If subscribers have higher stat caps, that means they're more powerful than you, every single time. Consistently. In a game like H&H where higher stats mean they can destroy everything you've worked for over MONTHS, that makes a huge difference compared to a regular ol' MMO.

I do, however, have an idea. Give subscribers access to an additional row (or column?) of curio spaces, but SLIGHTLY diminish the LP returns (like a few percent) when it's filled past 4x4 spaces. This provides an interesting balance - small time players aren't adversely effected at all but big time players can get a few more LP in at the cost of a little efficiency.

[abt79]

don't just keep beating the same dead horse over and over, I don't think it helps much.

If I continue maybe someday I'll get a tamed horse

[strpk0]

i still think cosmetic only is viable as well, you just have to make it work with the game correctly. people don't want to buy a hat if they have to choose between the fancy hat and a helmet that could save their life.

How would they go about implementing this though, a cosmetic overlayer/two more cosmetic equipment slots?

Would make it confusing to determine if someone is wearing armor or not though. Perhaps have it so there's alternative models, "reskins" or "retextures" for the same useful items. Maybe red dragon helm, etc.
Edit: or you could always make a toggle or option to see only real armor while in combat with someone, and hide the "overlayed" cosmetic items. Don't know how much this would devaluate them in that case, though. But maybe a combination of these 2 ideas (reskins and overlayed cosmetic items) could work.

[sabinati]

this guy has a bunch of ideas

Sorry I only just saw this…

Your new model might work, but I doubt it. Limiting a toon to 200 max - limits the end game - I already had 300 str - and it was needed to be able to "scratch stone" in the mine. Even if you balance rock/metal... to 200 cap it will reduce interest in the pure open ended nature of your previous versions of the game.

I invested in hopes that you guys would figure it out, I truly doubt you will see success with a capped skill model - with this type of "capped" play. Sandbox inherently should be sandbox - ie no limits no caps. That is exactly why I dont play WOW and why I did play this game. Maybe you set it to 30 hours a week - maybe you just set the hours too low. I get you want to monetize (and probably need to) but maybe the paid people could get other benefits...

Alternate ideas (could be bundled or separate ITEMS) not all are necessarily good - i am just throwing these out there.
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* no cap on paid - cap on free unlimited? (with the extra features being specific $ or one time $???) or maybe unpaid gets a LP "drain" the world drains you and paid doesn’t so gain would be slower and harder at higher but little impact at low levels - maybe combined stats = drain if you are unpaid? "weight of the world" type thing
* paid gives you respawn of some or all stats on death based on paid vs unpaid (3x and low paid and 9x at high paid) and unpaid gets little or none (or maybe %'s) – this could be an object that carries skill from the toon to the next toon in the bloodline – or could go to ANY other toon – life totem? (could be item or come with paid toon). Alternately an amulet that reflect skills from experience back to the PAID toon 1% at bronze, 2% at silver and 3% at gold? (or something like that)
* paid gives you ability to create a trade hub - unpaid cant create trade hub (anyone can go to one)
* paid can ride horses - unpaid cant or paid toons can tame horses unpaid cant
* paid accounts can make ropes faster or other "make item" things go faster for paid
* scrying ball for paid toons that allows wandering at high speed so you could scour map quickly (but limited uses or limited time) maybe uses energy - or are ITEMS that could be stolen or traded?
* x number of terraforming cubes that can move huge amounts of earth (balanced against manual performance)
* large "fluff" items like a dragon or demon or whatever that would "watch over" a village - but just be cosmetic / cool bling
* custom looking bling armor not available to unpaid
* special buildings only for paid (still would allow people to function)
* implement small pets - you could tame wolves to get dogs but ONLY for paid accounts
* maybe a "paid toon" - participant robe that gives an extra row of inventory (only wearable by paid accounts)
* paid account allows a personal claim changes the ICON on the map
* paid account has a slot for 1 claim to allow 1 more study slot - unpaid doesnt get the slot
* paid account upgrades a personal or village claim - slight increase in walk speed inside the claim for friends (maybe even select-able)
* paid account 5% increase in luck? (finding stuff - fate items ... not too % but some)
* paid account user can transform "form" to wolf or cat or bear - (doesn’t affect attack or only slightly or affects speed) unpaid cant
* Paid account can select silly bling like "glow" or "dark aura" - no effect just "cool"
* paid account gets mood music if chosen like aura - no effect just "cool"
* paid toons get funky night vision
* maybe paid account people look slightly different (elves vs humans? or simpler looking vs royal)
* paid toons can change what they look like (face/body)
* Paid toons can SELECT look of buildings - unpaid have to select materials to get color combos
* paid toons can PAINT buildings and walls and such - unpaid cannot
* paid toons can specify a new toon spawn point - unpaid cannot
* paid toons get healed by the TreeEnt things - unpaid don’t
* paid toons can create specialty furniture – chairs and tables
* paid toons can create specialty clothes
* paid toons can create specialty household items more bling; paintings; rugs; beds vases
* paid toons can speed up farming (or that could be a specific $ skill that could be paid for an account)
* paid toons can meditate to recover energy quicker w/less drain; or they just lose less energy



Consider selling in game items to bring in revenue (or could be combined to get people to go from silver to bronze to gold??)
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* ITEM: "skill knife" that levels = to survival (paid item that can be stolen - maybe unlimited or 10,000 uses or even multiple versions at various $ levels)
* Item and/or account feature: paid accounts start with flint/steel unlimited uses (can be stolen) or you can only make the unlimited ones if you are Paid or this can be an in-game "item for sale"
* ITEM: teleport stones or something funky that would not be overpowering but would give advantage (can be stolen/traded in game)
* ITEM: special symbel item (that could be stolen) that increases FEP % (not crazy but still nice for new toons)
* ITEM: special rings or broach or something that has bling like effect – cool but not too overpowering –
* ITEM: farmer hat that speeds farming
* ITEM: miner hat that protects from cave-in and speeds mining
* ITEM: amulet or ring or broach - that ups quality point by 1% or only 5 points or something.




Other ideas on just general gameplay
* add filter device: cloth + charcoal can create water filter to improve it (or similar)
* add throwers trough "device": higher clay can be made from dirt + bone + water (or similar)
* traps– some way for hermits to protect themselves
* towers – that give ranged weapon increase % for all toons in them (think guard tower) again a bit of protection for hermits
* tame dogs from wolves that would fight with toon or would protect camp (maybe ONLY inside claim)


If I think of more I will post.