World Re-sets in other MMO

[The_Lich_King]

I think something that everyone is forgetting is that some games may do regular resets and that may work well for them but that doesn't mean it will work well here. You see here the reason people get board is that theres very little to do after you reach stat cap and have all the gear. A reset won't change this. Basically what would happen is the same thing that happened this world and it would happen infinately. What needs to happen isn't another reset its that we need some insentive to keep playing after stat cap and we recieve all the end game gear. Like say animals so tough that they are like bosses and require multiple people to beat them and have great rewards for doing so, or a change to pvp that would get people to stop being shy and start up giant wars (i doubt this last one will ever happen no matter what change happens because people will always be shy about losing their char but i listed it as an option just because it is an example of something that could help)

[Pickard]

Do you have any examples?

As I've understood it, Wurm doesn't have resets ever. Whether Wurm is a good game can be debated, I'm sure, but it seems to have more players than Haven, at least.

Guess why
http://store.steampowered.com/app/366220/

Also HnH has no english wiki page.

[Ysh]

You see here the reason people get board is that theres very little to do after you reach stat cap and have all the gear. A reset won't change this. Basically what would happen is the same thing that happened this world and it would happen infinately. What needs to happen isn't another reset its that we need some insentive to keep playing after stat cap and we recieve all the end game gear.

This is crux of issue, yes.

Like say animals so tough that they are like bosses and require multiple people to beat them and have great rewards for doing so

What kind of reward could animal give? This is point I am making before. In current state of game there is nothing player want except for quality. How to give incentive beyond quality?

[loftar]

Guess why
http://store.steampowered.com/app/366220/

Wurm Unlimited was added pretty recently, though (like October or so, IIRC), and doesn't seem to have affected their online user numbers much, either positive or negative.

[Moisture]

Now this is my type of thread.

Said it before, and I'll say it again, a world reset happening as soon as the next "big" patch would come out would be a significant enough change (like the overhauled combat) to make the reset extremely ideal. Don't give me that "I-i-it would just die again though after a few months" shit either. Of course it would die once people reach endgame again, because endgame is currently piss poor. I said this in my previous thread on this subject, but there's absolutely no good reason to be stuck in this current, boring as fuck dead world for an extra year or so while we wait for the devs who have no clear ideas on how to address end game yet.
Best thing the devs can do is give us a new world to play with to shut us up from complaining for a good while so that they can get shit sorted out. We'd have some new combat to play with, another surge in players (however temporary that may be) and we get to enjoy Haven in its strongest stages.

I for one will gladly shill this game on my favorite Indonesian shoe repair website which only got turned off by this game due to the previous payment model (there was a fuck ton of interest and hype built up before then). I have no doubt that a lot of those people will want to play knowing that there's no stupid time limit crap around anymore.

Honestly though?
I like the idea that, when your character reaches a certain point, you can "sacrifice" that character somehow which would leave you with a fresh character that has certain permanent advantages over your previous character. What those perks would be I do not really know, but obviously they'd have to be at least somewhat significant considering what you're giving up.
I also know some people are against this, but we fucking need some high level, scary as shit monsters that are a GENUINE threat, even to a group of people. Yes, trolls are somewhat threatening, but seriously, why not give people in boats something to fear? I propose you put in some mid tier difficult enemy in waters, as well as some monsterously scary enemy, such as a Kraken. A big land based enemy too. I've heard people saying dragons and shit, but whatever it is it doesn't really matter, as long as it's powerful and has a real chance of killing you. There's not really much to do end game unless you're PvP'ing honestly, so this could help balance things out.


Finally, make it so metal doesn't fucking overshadow everything else. Currently, metal is the be all end all of this game, and it's so retarded. Metal shit isn't even hard to get for fuck sake. Growing a high quality tree is more tedious, and offers far less.
Leather becomes almost irrelevant. CtC is the only thing that saves leather somewhat. I'd like to see some leather based gear that isn't completely overshadowed by metal. Fuck the realism people. Give variety.
Give B12's and spears a niche that they excel at. An axe only move called Guillotine or some shit as well as a spear only move and so on.

Most of this stuff can be added at any time too, so there's no reason what so ever to delay a reset for them.

[Ysh]

Said it before, and I'll say it again, a world reset happening as soon as the next "big" patch would come out would be a significant enough change (like the overhauled combat) to make the reset extremely ideal. Don't give me that "I-i-it would just die again though after a few months" shit either. Of course it would die once people reach endgame again, because endgame is currently piss poor. I said this in my previous thread on this subject, but there's absolutely no good reason to be stuck in this current, boring as fuck dead world for an extra year or so while we wait for the devs who have no clear ideas on how to address end game yet.
Best thing the devs can do is give us a new world to play with to shut us up from complaining for a good while so that they can get shit sorted out. We'd have some new combat to play with, another surge in players (however temporary that may be) and we get to enjoy Haven in its strongest stages.

A. Fear of too many reset driving player from game.
B. What of casual player who still plays game?
I am thinking you hear this argument before, though. You do not find them compelling or do not care?

I like the idea that, when your character reaches a certain point, you can "sacrifice" that character somehow which would leave you with a fresh character that has certain permanent advantages over your previous character. What those perks would be I do not really know, but obviously they'd have to be at least somewhat significant considering what you're giving up.

This looks just as removing stat cap. Point of stat cap is for there to be cap of progression. This is circumventing this point.

I also know some people are against this, but we fucking need some high level, scary as shit monsters that are a GENUINE threat, even to a group of people. Yes, trolls are somewhat threatening, but seriously, why not give people in boats something to fear? I propose you put in some mid tier difficult enemy in waters, as well as some monsterously scary enemy, such as a Kraken. A big land based enemy too. I've heard people saying dragons and shit, but whatever it is it doesn't really matter, as long as it's powerful and has a real chance of killing you. There's not really much to do end game unless you're PvP'ing honestly, so this could help balance things out.

What will be point of killing creature? Player is ''already'' challenging for fighting (issues of combat system aside, player is smartest/most adaptable enemy than any AI creature) and people do not do this PvP. There must be carrot at end of stick.

Finally, make it so metal doesn't fucking overshadow everything else. Currently, metal is the be all end all of this game, and it's so retarded. Metal shit isn't even hard to get for fuck sake. Growing a high quality tree is more tedious, and offers far less.
Leather becomes almost irrelevant. CtC is the only thing that saves leather somewhat. I'd like to see some leather based gear that isn't completely overshadowed by metal. Fuck the realism people. Give variety.
Give B12's and spears a niche that they excel at. An axe only move called Guillotine or some shit as well as a spear only move and so on.

I think I agree with this one. Not much point in doing difficult industry if industry gives no value item. In game with only half dozen of weapon, each weapon should have some thing it is good at.

[The_Lich_King]

You see here the reason people get board is that theres very little to do after you reach stat cap and have all the gear. A reset won't change this. Basically what would happen is the same thing that happened this world and it would happen infinately. What needs to happen isn't another reset its that we need some insentive to keep playing after stat cap and we recieve all the end game gear.

This is crux of issue, yes.

Like say animals so tough that they are like bosses and require multiple people to beat them and have great rewards for doing so

What kind of reward could animal give? This is point I am making before. In current state of game there is nothing player want except for quality. How to give incentive beyond quality?

You say what kind of reward could it give. Well i propose that something akin to to like say a item that increases stat cap of the user by like 5 but make it so it would take like a hunting party of 4 people to actually slay the bastard or make it so that there is a boss called "Mother of All Beasts" or something to that effect and when you kill it, it would give a amulet that allows you to tame bears and boars for sieges. This would make it so more sieging would go on because all siegers would have to risk is animals and not their chars and lets face it sieging is one of the main things that would keep hardcore players playing. Make it so that this "Mother of All Beasts" has to be killed using specific perameters in order to get the amulet like (only using the moves you started with) or (use only melee combat but not aloud to use a sword or a b12 so that you have to use stone or metal axes which would make combat so much harder). I feel like this would be like a true boss-fight and afterwards would give hardcore players more insentive to keep playing since they could do end-game things without risking losing their chars.

[Ysh]

You see here the reason people get board is that theres very little to do after you reach stat cap and have all the gear. A reset won't change this. Basically what would happen is the same thing that happened this world and it would happen infinately. What needs to happen isn't another reset its that we need some insentive to keep playing after stat cap and we recieve all the end game gear.

This is crux of issue, yes.

Like say animals so tough that they are like bosses and require multiple people to beat them and have great rewards for doing so

What kind of reward could animal give? This is point I am making before. In current state of game there is nothing player want except for quality. How to give incentive beyond quality?

You say what kind of reward could it give. Well i propose that something akin to to like say a item that increases stat cap of the user by like 5 but make it so it would take like a hunting party of 4 people to actually slay the bastard or make it so that there is a boss called "Mother of All Beasts" or something to that effect and when you kill it, it would give a amulet that allows you to tame bears and boars for sieges. This would make it so more sieging would go on because all siegers would have to risk is animals and not their chars and lets face it sieging is one of the main things that would keep hardcore players playing. Make it so that this "Mother of All Beasts" has to be killed using specific perameters in order to get the amulet like (only using the moves you started with) or (use only melee combat but not aloud to use a sword or a b12 so that you have to use stone or metal axes which would make combat so much harder). I feel like this would be like a true boss-fight and afterwards would give hardcore players more insentive to keep playing since they could do end-game things without risking losing their chars.

You are still missing point. Giving item that increases stat cap -> player make high quality thing -> player at new stat cap -> nothing left to do. People right now are not avoiding siege because they do not want to lose character. I see many high end player say stat cap is too low, they can cap character in weeks time. This is not a huge risk to them. They avoid siege because some number of A. combat is not fun in and of itself B. siege takes literal 14+ hours to do C. you get nothing of reward for doing siege any way because of moving stuff and alt vaulting (high end raid faction please correct me if I am wrong). But this is still missing point. Even if this is all fixed, why will player siege? To boost own quality (steal from more developed player) or hurt opponent quality (break industry of rival player). All of these thing are still of same race metagame mind set. Why a player will care if he is already at cap? He can not steal thing of value, and you would need to be very large sadist to spend so much time and effort to just hurt other player with no gain to you (especially when you put in so much effort for so little hurt of them).

Adding some ''boss fight'' or ''big mobs'' will not do any thing to fix it (not that it should not be added, just not a solution to this problem here). This is the model that World of Warcraft using. World of Warcraft has static content release at steady pace that you beat and then waiting for next fights to come out, slightly harder than last. A two man team jorb/loftar can not product this content fast enough for player consuming. Blizzard can not even work this fast and I am sure they have far more than 2 employee working on game. Static content can not work in this game for solution to end game problem.

[The_Lich_King]

Adding some ''boss fight'' or ''big mobs'' will not do any thing to fix it (not that it should not be added, just not a solution to this problem here). This is the model that World of Warcraft using. World of Warcraft has static content release at steady pace that you beat and then waiting for next fights to come out, slightly harder than last. A two man team jorb/loftar can not product this content fast enough for player consuming. Blizzard can not even work this fast and I am sure they have far more than 2 employee working on game. Static content can not work in this game for solution to end game problem.

So what is your solution? With every MMO it boils down to fighting the biggest boss and then wait for the next. No matter how you manufacture your MMO there will be a point where somebody has done everything and has nothing to do. I mean you could raise stat cap and raise q cap but what then. Eventually what you wind up doing is the same thing that has happened here which is they have done everything that needs to be done. Changing things won't fix that all you can do is add enough things that a player won't be able to do everything before world reset keeping them interested and playing. I mean i know boss fights and rewards items are only a very temporary fix and will quickly be done and over with but so will literally anything. It's the nature of MMOs to reach that one point when you have done everything and the only way to fix it is to have enough things to do.

[Ysh]

So what is your solution? With every MMO it boils down to fighting the biggest boss and then wait for the next.

This is true only for themepark MMO. Haven is (trying to be) sandbox MMO. Point is that there must be some dynamic player driven content in game that is continually interesting. Only other sandbox game I have slightly familiar with that is somewhat successful is EVE Online. There is no bosses monsters in this game. Players constantly compete to control area in space so they can exploit this area for getting more money and resource. I am not saying ''oh, just do this exact thing in Haven'' since I do not think it can work in same way. Most simplistic view of system is ''player compete to control locations and location gives score when you control it'' and other systems do some things that make it so player wants to get highest score possible (and high score does not increase player power, otherwise snowballing out of control for first place player). Hopeful this can give some idea of what I am meaning.

But really, if:

So what is your solution? With every MMO it boils down to fighting the biggest boss and then wait for the next.

is what you are want from MMO game, I think you are in wrong place. You will have more fun playing World of Warcraft. And I do not mean that as offense (I am subscribed to World of Warcraft right now, actually).