Scents should allow delivery of justice

[LostJustice]

Agree with LadyGoo completely and with much of what Rawrz said. The system you had devised punishes people that are considered "criminal" but it more like the situation of an eye for an eye. Problem is, people will abuse the loop holes in PvP. Not sure if ever been in a skirmish but if someone has a scent that can kill someone in a PvP fight when they are koed that can be detrimental and problem is that fate was decided because they were a "criminal" by your standards. Thing is like what Rawrz and LadyGoo was hinting at is that you cannot decide who is a criminal. It takes in motive and perspective into reasoning who is a criminal. Someone attacks a poor noob and I kill them and I am now the criminal?

To some yes I would be the criminal but to others I would be a good guy for doing that. In reality, you cannot justify who is a criminal and who isn't and to devise a system based on punishing what is considered a criminal to you is not a system I don't think many people want to deal with. Like LadyGoo mentioned, there is always something like political motive involved and like for my group, we usually don't interfere with hermit vs hermits because we don't know who the criminal is and it isn't our justification to do so. But if it something like a faction or a killing spree going on, then we know what is happening and we usually will do something about it at that stage. Otherwise we simply leave it as it is because we are never Justice Warriors, only avengers.

[dafels]

I think Granger wants to see all noobs to suffer and die

[Granger]

I think Granger wants to see all noobs to suffer and die

So far the complaints here come from the ones that seem to find it normal to leave scents left and right - who're usually the ones making noobs suffer and die.

[shubla]

I think Granger wants to see all noobs to suffer and die

So far the complaints here come from the ones that seem to find it normal to leave scents left and right - who're usually the ones making noobs suffer and die.

I strongly think that noobs dont leave scents.
If they do, they get killed almost instantly.

[MrPunchers]

Webp.net-compress-image.jpg

Granger rn showing the broken scent mechanics to the devs.

[Zbyx]

What was voiced here on the forum was that killing in combat is a somewhat rare thing these days. The idea to be able to execute murderers stems from what I have read on the forums (posted by the same type of players), that the usual thing that happens when being caught seems to be: being KO'd, porting to HF, applying some medicine, grabbing new gear from the stockpile, eating to full energy and idling off the wounds, then going on another crime spree the next day.

Justice seems to be solely done through spamming nidbanes these days. At least I havn't seen posts about dealing justice (that were quite frequent in legacy) in a classical, hand-made manner since nidbanes and visitor became a thing, ranging in the classical sense (which was a fun thing to do) seems to be dead. I would like to see that change.

Also currently trade seems to be boring, crime wise. This topic was created after thinking about the consequences of a Trade Window that can be stolen from - should that happen but something like this suggestion not being added along it, there would be nothing that one could do to a criminal that just robbed you in a market (as visitor would prevent you from retaliation). The idea that consequences of retaliation should be less dangerous to the one performing it (compared to committing a fresh crime) came from the realisation that else no one would retaliate, ever, in a public place since everyone else would then be able to attack instantly. The rest is applying that logic to the actions that follow when serving justice.

Please try to see this suggestion in that context.

PS: Yes, this would make visitor zones less safe for criminals. Not a bad thing if you ask me.

Dying in combat was made more forgiving to make people fight more, which it did , so if you increase deaths in combat people will sit inside walls and fight less again. Giving ability to attack criminal in public place is really nice idea, but unfortunately only would work if you couldn't make alts, so the only change it will do in my opinion, is that people will go out everywhere with alts and keep their gates closed more (or just build some small walled place inside villages to keep scented characters).

About that trade window, its nice idea actually , but its hard to know what exacly will happen, i see some interesting scenarios like you come with group , steal item and help your guy run away but also maybe it will just kill stealing at all during trade.

Now about scents. I think that you should be able to KO character who did a crime of theft or vandalism (only these two) without becoming an outlaw (If you kill him you still get outlaw) . And if a person has done a murder then you can kill him without getting outlaw debuff.

Also , i think that people with Red Handed debuff should be unable to use crossroads, to catch them a little easier if they recently did a crime (and maybe extend a bit a duration of Red Handed? ).

[Granger]

Dying in combat was made more forgiving to make people fight more, which it did , so if you increase deaths in combat people will sit inside walls and fight less again. Giving ability to attack criminal in public place is really nice idea, but unfortunately only would work if you couldn't make alts, so the only change it will do in my opinion, is that people will go out everywhere with alts and keep their gates closed more (or just build some small walled place inside villages to keep scented characters).

The alt argument is old, using it basically everything can be argued away (and people are trying to). To reasonably exploit this using alts the offender would have to create them as capable fighters, the ones that alt fighters do that anyway already - so IMHO no real change here. The only real change to combat for a character would be active murder scents existing for it - and these being carried by his foes.

About that trade window, its nice idea actually , but its hard to know what exacly will happen, i see some interesting scenarios like you come with group , steal item and help your guy run away but also maybe it will just kill stealing at all during trade.

I think it would be quite interesting to find out. As the one that is stolen from still has somewhat protection by the KO mechanic he actually might be tempted to try to catch the thief and loot his item back (or another, which he could reposess in exchange for the theft scent generated in the trade that went south - should he be able to down the offender). Finally, should there be a death in the process it would give a murder scent that could be acted upon.

Now about scents. I think that you should be able to KO character who did a crime of theft or vandalism (only these two) without becoming an outlaw (If you kill him you still get outlaw) . And if a person has done a murder then you can kill him without getting outlaw debuff.

Regarding 'be able to KO character who...': the proposal isn't to RMB->'KO' a character (or force summon as in legacy) - only that should you land a hit in combat that would KO a character you carry a murder scent from... it wouldn't KO but be applied as a normal hit. The mechanic would be purely between you and that character, other characters additional in combat with your target won't benefit (unless your hit enables another to deal a deadly blow, making him a murderer).

The reason behind the suggested 'justice' scents was to not make it too easy (thus the need to actually carry the crime scents to be able to act on them) or consequence-free (thus the generation of scents that, while not useable to attack in protected areas or summon nidbanes, are still useable for tracking the ranger) to persue criminals - just to actually enable it for 'normal' characters that, would they be successful (KO and reposessing the item), under the current could simply be simply drowned in nidbanes summoned by the criminal and his buddies (on the battery and theft scents created, which would be ).

Also , i think that people with Red Handed debuff should be unable to use crossroads, to catch them a little easier if they recently did a crime (and maybe extend a bit a duration of Red Handed? ).

I see a new wave of complaints incoming, but I don't think it's a completely unreasonable view (in case you refer to 'travel' with 'use').

[DDDsDD999]

Now about scents. I think that you should be able to KO character who did a crime of theft or vandalism (only these two) without becoming an outlaw (If you kill him you still get outlaw) . And if a person has done a murder then you can kill him without getting outlaw debuff.

Regarding 'be able to KO character who...': the proposal isn't to RMB->'KO' a character (or force summon as in legacy) - only that should you land a hit in combat that would KO a character you carry a murder scent from... it wouldn't KO but be applied as a normal hit. The mechanic would be purely between you and that character, other characters additional in combat with your target won't benefit (unless your hit enables another to deal a deadly blow, making him a murderer).

Making scents = death is retarded. It's ripe for alt abuse, as if nidbanes weren't game-changing enough. Annoying alt blocking your door on low HP? Better have a rage alt ready or you'll die if you get ganked outside. Vandal alts are already required for siege to fight off the alt-waves so your fighters don't get spammed with nidbanes, let's not make it so your character fucking dies because you were stupid enough to try and fight back against alt-spam.

The whole notion of "You leave scents? You're criminal, die!!!" is also retarded. Some scenarios you are absolutely forced to leave scents, even if you're a "peaceful player."

[Zbyx]

Now about scents. I think that you should be able to KO character who did a crime of theft or vandalism (only these two) without becoming an outlaw (If you kill him you still get outlaw) . And if a person has done a murder then you can kill him without getting outlaw debuff.

Regarding 'be able to KO character who...': the proposal isn't to RMB->'KO' a character (or force summon as in legacy) - only that should you land a hit in combat that would KO a character you carry a murder scent from... it wouldn't KO but be applied as a normal hit. The mechanic would be purely between you and that character, other characters additional in combat with your target won't benefit (unless your hit enables another to deal a deadly blow, making him a murderer).

yes i didnt mean to right click and knock out but to actually fight and if you have his vandalism/theft scents you don't leave any scent (unless you murder him , then you do leave murder scent) and if you own his murder scent then you can do anything to that target (you still have to actually fight him normally just to be clear) and you don't leave any scents which punish you in any way at least (you still get red handed debuff ofcourse) , other than ability to track you down maybe.

[Mario_Demorez]

Now about scents. I think that you should be able to KO character who did a crime of theft or vandalism (only these two) without becoming an outlaw (If you kill him you still get outlaw) . And if a person has done a murder then you can kill him without getting outlaw debuff.

Regarding 'be able to KO character who...': the proposal isn't to RMB->'KO' a character (or force summon as in legacy) - only that should you land a hit in combat that would KO a character you carry a murder scent from... it wouldn't KO but be applied as a normal hit. The mechanic would be purely between you and that character, other characters additional in combat with your target won't benefit (unless your hit enables another to deal a deadly blow, making him a murderer).

Making scents = death is retarded. It's ripe for alt abuse, as if nidbanes weren't game-changing enough. Annoying alt blocking your door on low HP? Better have a rage alt ready or you'll die if you get ganked outside. Vandal alts are already required for siege to fight off the alt-waves so your fighters don't get spammed with nidbanes, let's not make it so your character fucking dies because you were stupid enough to try and fight back against alt-spam.

The whole notion of "You leave scents? You're criminal, die!!!" is also retarded. Some scenarios you are absolutely forced to leave scents, even if you're a "peaceful player."

If an Alts on your claim you can exile him, which could then be made where if someone’s on someone else’s active claim that they don’t leave scents if crimes are committed by the owners.